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parking charge notice to keeper
ekim3951
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:44
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Received this this afternoon 24th September 2018.
Advice needed please.
Thought on approaching the car park and toilets that it was free, but on entering saw that it wasn't but the signs said that the first 10 minutes of parking were free and therefore decided to pop to the toilet while there. Apparently was there for 16 minutes but it took time to find a parking space and then toilets were further away than I thought. WAS actually parked for less than 10 minutes. 4 to 5 minutes to find a space that wasn't flooded then park 3 to 4 minutes to leave.

Many thanks in advance.
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post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 16:44
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ostell
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:42
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There would appear to be at least 2 failures with PCN. The major one is that the PCN was delivered to you outside of the 14 days relevant period that is required by POFA. Section 9 (4)

They have also failed to give the warning required by 9 (2) (f).

The period of parking will also be incorrect. They mean the times between the cameras. A car moving in front of a camera, by very definition, can not be parked.

They have also not identified the creditor, contrary to 9 (2) (h)

When I get back on my computer I'll post a suggested letter
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ekim3951
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 17:59
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 18:42) *
There would appear to be at least 2 failures with PCN. The major one is that the PCN was delivered to you outside of the 14 days relevant period that is required by POFA. Section 9 (4)

They have also failed to give the warning required by 9 (2) (f).

The period of parking will also be incorrect. They mean the times between the cameras. A car moving in front of a camera, by very definition, can not be parked.

They have also not identified the creditor, contrary to 9 (2) (h)

When I get back on my computer I'll post a suggested letter


thanks I do hope you may be able to offer some help looking forward to any suggestions that may help
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ostell
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 18:51
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OK here's a suggestion

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act.

You have also failed to give the warning mandated by 9 (2) (f) also not identified the creditor as required by 9 (2) (h)

You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.
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ekim3951
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:09
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:51) *
OK here's a suggestion

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to deliver the notice within the prescribed relevant period of 14 days, contrary to section 9 (4) of the Act.

You have also failed to give the warning mandated by 9 (2) (f) also not identified the creditor as required by 9 (2) (h)

You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

Yours etc.


thanks ostell I'll get the letter off first thing tomorrow.
hope it works will post any replies on receipt.

thanks again
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ostell
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:51
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Post it first class and get free certificate of posting from a post office
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ekim3951
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:54
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 20:51) *
Post it first class and get free certificate of posting from a post office


Will do
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The Rookie
post Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 06:23
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Personally I would have also added grace periods, 10 minutes free parking plus 10 minutes grace >16 minutes.

That's as long as the sign genuinely offers 10 minutes free?


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ekim3951
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 15:30
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Hi all
just received these today
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along with
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I take it I just continue to ignore as first advised

thanks
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 15:52
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Well theyve confirmed theyre not using POFA, meaning the Keeepr has no liabiltiy.
You could respond, thanking them for their confirmation that they have no claim against you as Keeper of the vehicle, and invite them to cease contacting you and to take the issue up with the driver, who you will not be naming.

Continuing to harass the keeper will lay them open to a claim for harassment, shoudl they be foolish enough to issue a claim this will involve a counterclaim in excess of £500 based on Vidal Hall levels of compensation.
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cabbyman
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 16:21
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+1

A popcorn thread!

EDIT your first post to remove all extraneous detail. Just leave:

Received this this afternoon 24th September 2018.
Advice needed please.

Many thanks in advance.


The rest is irrelevant.

This post has been edited by cabbyman: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:32


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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:12
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Send a data misuse complaint to their Data Protection Officer, to pave the way to more widespread complaints:

Head it up: OBJECTION TO PROCESSING AND FORMAL REQUEST FOR DATA ERASURE

Ask:

QUOTE
On what basis are ParkWithEase still processing and threatening to share with debt collectors, my personal data? Given that you have confirmed that you are not able to rely upon the POFA in this case, my understanding of the KADOE is that under these circumstances, registered keeper data can only be used to enquire who was driving, and no more. You've done that, and that avenue is now closed.

As the driver will not be named, you have now exhausted any reasonable cause you had in the first place, so on what basis is PWE's DPO allowing my data to be prepared to be shared out to unregulated debt firms, and why are demands for money being sent to me personally, given you have no reasonable cause to do that?

Your DPO must reply, and note that this is an OBJECTION TO PROCESSING AND A REQUEST FOR MY DATA TO BE ERASED, now you have exhausted the very limited enquiry that the DVLA allowed you to make. The DVLA is clear on this, with non POFA cases.




Send that directly to PWE's Data Protection Officer (ideally by email). Find their contact details by looking at PWE's online 'Privacy' statement.

...then, when they refuse to stop processing your data, you can take the matter to the Information Commissioner, an online complaint with evidence, which will make the PPC's life difficult and should, one would hope, force them to cease data processing (and would then help other cases, as we could cite the decision).

That stage would need careful wording, as IMHO the ICO won't be likely to ''get it'' that PPCs can't just pursue keepers every time. They'd need it explained to them what a Non-POFA case is and why the PPC can only ''enquire who was driving'' under the KADOE rules, and that's all. They cannot hold the keeper personally liable nor make any lawful presumption (because there isn't one) about a registered keeper being the driver, just because the keeper exercises their right to protect the driver by not naming them (erstwhile POPLA Lead Adjudicator and parking law expert barrister, Henry Greenslade's words on UNDERSTANDING KEEPER LIABILITY, from the POPLA Annual Report 2015 (easy to find) would help that stage to steer the ICO investigation properly.

The KADOE itself would also need to be linked, and any email or FOI anyone can dig out, where the DVLA reconfirmed the very limited basis upon which they are giving PPCs our personal data, for any non-POFA case.
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ekim3951
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:25
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:21) *
+1

A popcorn thread!

EDIT your first post to remove all extraneous detail. Just leave:

Received this this afternoon 24th September 2018.
Advice needed please.

Many thanks in advance.


The rest is irrelevant and may complicate matters if they spot this thread.


tried to edit but no edit button
thanks
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cabbyman
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:33
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Have you read their privacy policy, SRM?

https://www.parkwithease.co.uk/privacyPolicy.aspx


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SchoolRunMum
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 17:43
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No, hadn't looked till now but the entire website just scrolls in circles for me, did you find the same?
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ekim3951
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 18:26
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thanks all
very tempted SchoolRunMum but PWE's web isn't cooperating at the moment
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cabbyman
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 20:02
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 18:43) *
No, hadn't looked till now but the entire website just scrolls in circles for me, did you find the same?


It's appalling and, yes, quite circular!


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Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 20:35
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QUOTE (ekim3951 @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 19:26) *
thanks all
very tempted SchoolRunMum but PWE's web isn't cooperating at the moment

So you obviously post the SAR. It's important.
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ekim3951
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 06:14
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Thu, 11 Oct 2018 - 21:35) *
QUOTE (ekim3951 @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 19:26) *
thanks all
very tempted SchoolRunMum but PWE's web isn't cooperating at the moment

So you obviously post the SAR. It's important.



Ok I'll get on with it over the weekend when I've a bit more time

again thanks all will post SAR before sending
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ekim3951
post Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 11:33
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ParkWithEase
Data Protection Officer,
Unit F,
The Court Kestrel Road,
Trafford Park,
Manchester,
M17 1SF

OBJECTION TO PROCESSING AND FORMAL REQUEST FOR DATA ERASURE

Dear Sir or Madam,

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

On what basis are ParkWithEase still processing and threatening to share with debt collectors, my personal data? Given that you have confirmed that you are not able to rely upon the POFA in this case, my understanding of the KADOE is that under these circumstances, registered keeper data can only be used to enquire who was driving, and no more. You've done that, and that avenue is now closed.

As the driver will not be named, you have now exhausted any reasonable cause you had in the first place, so on what basis is PWE's DPO allowing my data to be prepared to be shared out to unregulated debt firms, and why are demands for money being sent to me personally, given you have no reasonable cause to do that?

Your DPO must reply, and note that this is an OBJECTION TO PROCESSING AND A REQUEST FOR MY DATA TO BE ERASED, now you have exhausted the very limited enquiry that the DVLA allowed you to make. The DVLA is clear on this, with non POFA cases.

Yours sincerely
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