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ES parking enforcement "Leaving site" unfair charge
Unfairly_Photosh...
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 02:01
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I received a parking charge notice in the post from a company called ES Parking Enforcement.

The car park in question has recently been taken over by them, so their rules have only been in effect for a few months.

Parking at the site has always been free, but the charge is "leaving the site"

Of the small group of shops adjacent to the car park, it seems only the 3 that face into the car park are considered "on
site". The other shops have their rear entrances directly on the car park, but face out into the street, to a wide
pavement/pedestrian area joined to the car park with a footpath. These are apparently "off site"

They have been agressively charging everyone, even the staff that work at the retail outlets.

I have receipts/evidence of purchases from the "on site" shops both before and after the incident time quoted on the PCN.

all their signs are mounted 8 feet up and you have to get quite close and crane your neck to read them. On site and off
site shops are NOT defined on the signs.

i've been trying to read up on the laws and my rights, but obviously time is tight, and it's all so confusing.

from browsing the forum, it seems like an appeal to ES parking, and then the IAS, or any IPC affiliated company would be a waste of time (the phrase "kangaroo court" comes up a lot)

I would really appreciate your help, is there anything i can do in this situation?




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post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 02:01
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emanresu
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 05:31
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I can see the tip of a Lidl sign there. Is this the Preston one or the Newcastle-u-Lyne one?

There are threads and wins for the site.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ostell
post Thu, 19 Jul 2018 - 07:50
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Would help to see the sign that was on site and be told the dates on the NTK They have not complied with POFA anyway.

Sirs

Ref PCN xxxxx VRM yyyyyy

I am the registered keeper of the above vehicle and am in receipt of the PCN you issued. I have no liability on this matter as you have failed to meet the requirements of Schedule 4 of The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 namely, but not limited to, failing to give the warning to the keeper, contrary to section 9 (2) (f) of the Act. You cannot therefore transfer liability from the driver at the time to me.

There is no legal requirement to identify the driver at the time and I will not be doing so.

Any further communication with me on this matter, apart from confirmation of no further action and my details being removed from your records, will be considered vexatious and harassment. This includes communication from any Debt Collection companies you care to instruct.

May I also refer you to the case of VCS v Ibbotson in the Scunthorpe CC, SE09849?

Yours etc.



It's IPC so don't even think of appealing to the IAS when offered.
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Unfairly_Photosh...
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 13:58
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This is in Manchester, it's an Aldi sign, but the Aldi shut down or moved a while ago, which is when I guess the car park changed hands.

Ostell, could you elaborate on how the PCN does not comply with POFA? I'm afraid I'm having some trouble understanding.

I'll get some clear pics of the sign uploaded tonight, at work on mobile right now.

Incident date was 26/06, date of sending 09/07
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emanresu
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 14:09
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Is this Seymour Grove?

There is the issue of "what premises" if the store is closed. Which premises did the sign refer to, and were they still in business. May be another impossibility to meet the terms on the signs, which we've seen with other ES tickets.

ES have a track record of entrapment which is against their Code of Practice but no sanction is ever levied.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 14:09


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ostell
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 14:49
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QUOTE (Unfairly_Photoshopped @ Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 14:58) *
Ostell, could you elaborate on how the PCN does not comply with POFA? I'm afraid I'm having some trouble understanding.


Did you look at POFA and did you find 9 (2) (f) and did you find that wording on the NTK?

To claim keeper liability all the itnes in 9 (2) MUST be in the NTK.
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Umkomaas
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 15:10
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Who has contracted ESPEL to operate at the car park? Some enquiries in that direction might help.
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Unfairly_Photosh...
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 17:12
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So POFA 9 (2) (f) states:

The notice must-

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

The PCN states-

"Date of sending: 09/07/18"
"Payment is now required in the sum of £100 within 28 days of the issue date i.e. no later than 06/08/2018"
"at the time of this notice we do not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver"

so i don't understand where they are in contravention of it.

emanresu - Yes, this is Seymour Grove. Damn, if i give you any more details, you'll figure out the size of my underwear!

Here's what the signs say:

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Redivi
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 17:37
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That's why this forum is more effective than any solicitor

We know the companies, the personalities, their individual practices and their honeypots
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ostell
post Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 20:58
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9 (2) (f) is not there What is there is a bastardization of 9 (2) (e)
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Dave65
post Sat, 21 Jul 2018 - 09:47
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Can`t make out any warning of ANPR camera monitoring
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Unfairly_Photosh...
post Mon, 23 Jul 2018 - 17:03
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There is no ANPR, it's just a guy in an unmarked car with a camera taking pictures of people on the car park.

I found the landowner:

Manchester Property Group
(MCR Property Group)
MCRProperty.com
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 07:43
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You missed the last part of 92f

The notice must-

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,


Does it warn the keeper that after 29 days from the day it is given, 28 days from the day after, the keeper will be liable? Yes or No.
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The Slithy Tove
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 16:48
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 08:43) *
Does it warn the keeper that after 29 days from the day it is given, 28 days from the day after, the keeper will be liable? Yes or No.

From what I can see of the PCN, I would say it's a "no". Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
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Churchmouse
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 18:04
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 08:43) *
You missed the last part of 92f

The notice must-

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,


Does it warn the keeper that after 29 days from the day it is given, 28 days from the day after, the keeper will be liable? Yes or No.

This is the language from POFA that follows the comma in the quoted language above:
QUOTE
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Without that, they have not "warned the keeper" about his/her liability for the driver's heinous actions. It's arguably the most important part of POFA, because it is the part that warns the RK that the liability of another person can be transferred onto them (a highly unusual legal result). It is astonishing that, six years after POFA was enacted, PPCs still cannot get their NtKs right...

--Churchmouse
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Redivi
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 18:09
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Yes

Beats me why the two trade associations still haven't provided standard wording for their members' parking notices and signs
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Umkomaas
post Tue, 24 Jul 2018 - 21:35
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QUOTE
It is astonishing that, six years after POFA was enacted, PPCs still cannot get their NtKs right...

Astonishing, maybe. Predictable, more likely.

Intellectual requirements are now a bit more exacting than crawling under a car and crunching on a clamp!
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Unfairly_Photosh...
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:20
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Ok, so I'm going to send the letter as recommended by ostell, but should I send it by post, or email?

With email, surely I would have a definite record of what I sent, and when I sent it?

The PCN says I must complain directly by writing to the address at the top of the letter. There is no address at the top on either side (save my own)
There is an address on the "payment slip" at the bottom, and a section on the back where complaints are referred to a website, which goes to their online appeals portal and asks for more info, which is pretty sneaky imho.

The only email address seems to be their "data protection officer"

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Redivi
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 22:32
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Use the Online portal but take care with any questions that ask you to identify the driver
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ostell
post Thu, 26 Jul 2018 - 07:36
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And take a screen print of what you send.
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