PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

52m PCN, Barnabas Road JCT, LB of Hackney, Experimental Traffic Order
Deemi
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 23:17
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
From: Romford
Member No.: 58,583



Hello,

I would like to request guidance on challenging this PCN as in my view it is unjust and discriminatory against the motorists.

Received this PCN today as the registered keeper of the vehicle. At the time of alleged contravention my wife was driving it with our 15-year-old son who had a meetup of his school band mates in Romford area after weeks of compliance with lockdown and social distancing rules and norms. We live in Hackney but his school is in Romford. Before the lock down, we always used to take Barnabas Road to reach to A12 whenever there was traffic on Homerton High Street.

The closure of Barnabas Road junction is a very recent development, that we got to know only after doing some online search on receiving the PCN. Please see below the LB of Hackney's tweet in this regard. There is no warning signage on the road or adjoining streets/roads prior to approaching the closed junction, which is, affected by putting planters on both sides of the road. My wife approached the closure from Berger Road to turn right on the junction and the closure comes suddenly, giving no or very little chance to read new signage and act accordingly.

The rationale behind the closure as is given on the local authority's website is:
As a result of the pandemic, people are walking and cycling more, but there is a clear danger that traffic will increase as people continue to avoid public transport. To support people to walk, cycle and maintain social distancing as lockdown eases and people continue to avoid public transport, we’re developing a radical post-lockdown transport strategy, one of the most ambitious of any London borough.


The measure is introduced under Experimental traffic Order. So, the 10 Downing Street wants people to avoid public transport to reduce the risk of spreading the virus while the local authorities like Hackney have planned to milk motorists under the pretext of social distancing and encouraging people to walk or cycle. Today, when I went there to take pictures and to see if there are any warnings about closure of the junction, I talked to shopkeepers there and they told like me many people have been issued PCN for alleged violation of the prohibition (52m) at this junction.












Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 15)
Advertisement
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 23:17
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
stamfordman
post Wed, 8 Jul 2020 - 23:29
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 23,582
Joined: 12 Feb 2013
From: London
Member No.: 59,924



Hackney (my borough) has put in four new ones like this and more are coming. Have to say the signs at the restriction couldn't be more clear. I think enforcement only started last week.

But as with this one Hackney has been slow to put up advance signs, possibly because they initially put these in as experimental orders. This one does now have proper signs on the approaches. That may be a way to challenge and also there may be leeway as it's so new.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=134928
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 08:39
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,007
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



The signs could hardly be clearer and I think trying to fight the contravention would be a fool's errand. A plea for discretion is all you've got.

Think of it this way: if those had been no entry signs, would you have just driven through? Of course not. The fact that you might be less familiar with a no motor vehicles sign is neither here nor there I'm afraid.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 08:40


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DJ Lexy
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 10:38
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 594
Joined: 7 Sep 2016
From: Glasgow
Member No.: 86,985



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 09:39) *
The fact that you might be less familiar with a no motor vehicles sign is neither here nor there I'm afraid.


Indeed - it's a common sign and one they ask about during theory tests.

QUOTE (cp8759 @ Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 09:39) *
The signs could hardly be clearer and I think trying to fight the contravention would be a fool's errand.


Four massive wooden planters in the road, three "no motor vehicles" signs and two "camera enforcement" signs? That's enough to make anybody stop and think "hmm... better not drive down here".

In all honesty, this looks like more of an "I chanced it and got caught" rather than an "I didn't know I couldn't drive down here".

You might think it's unfair to motorists, but councils do have a right to do this. Closing off small parts of side streets means that residents can still use them for access, but other people can't use them as a shortcut. If it's done well, it can greatly reduce traffic using side streets and make people stick to the main roads that are designed to handle large volumes of traffic. My local council has done the exact opposite - closed off all the main roads in the town centre or made them one way. All the entitled wealthy folk in their big white Audis are using the narrow side streets instead of the one way system. Narrow lanes that were designed only for resident access that normally see a few dozen cars a day now have a constant stream of cars queueing all the way down them, beeping at each other, and residents can't reverse out of their driveways.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Deemi
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 21:25
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
From: Romford
Member No.: 58,583



QUOTE (DJ Lexy @ Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 11:38) *
In all honesty, this looks like more of an "I chanced it and got caught" rather than an "I didn't know I couldn't drive down here".


This could have been correct observation had I been driving the car. Other half however usually is a very alert driver. As I said she approached the closed junction from the corner of Berger Road after having seen no advance warning and therefore could not immediately make up her mind to not go ahead. Keep in mind that she was driving through a previously familiar road after a gap of many weeks due to lockdown and social distancing. I will try to upload video of the alleged contravention, that might give a better idea that it was not an opportunistic move as you are inferring. Thank you, Stamfordman and CP8759 for your comments.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 21:31
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



We had one here or one of the others stamf mentioned. It was a motorbike. They lost at appeal. A car i do not think has a chance


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Deemi
post Thu, 9 Jul 2020 - 23:18
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
From: Romford
Member No.: 58,583



Here's the video evidence of the alleged contravention downloaded from the website of LB of Hackney Watch on Youtube
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 05:43
Post #8


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



OP----I think the pause in driving through the restriction is telling (there was an opportunity to reverse).

Otherwise there might have been a case for coming on to the restriction unexpectedly especially if there is no advanced warning sign in Berger Road.

It all looks damning from a camera perspective but the drivers view is blocked somewhat. For instance approaching on Berger Road the driver would not be able to see the restriction if the phone/cashpoint is still there:-

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Barnabas+...33;4d-0.0419843

Like others I believe you should settle at the discount.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 11:08
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



Simple to reverse back from where you came and turn right instead of left. pay the discount


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 13:17
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,007
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Fri, 10 Jul 2020 - 12:08) *
Simple to reverse back from where you came and turn right instead of left. pay the discount

+1 this is hopeless.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Deemi
post Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 20:54
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 28 Nov 2012
From: Romford
Member No.: 58,583



Thank you all for your input. Paid the penalty at the reduced amount, but thinking to challenge it on the grounds of no advance warning of the closure at the time of contravention!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 21:22
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Deemi @ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 21:54) *
Thank you all for your input. Paid the penalty at the reduced amount, but thinking to challenge it on the grounds of no advance warning of the closure at the time of contravention!


once you have paid you cannot challenge and beware even if you did and the council opened the door to tribunal if you lost you would still be liable for the full penalty of £130


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 16:42
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,007
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Deemi @ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 21:54) *
...but thinking to challenge it on the grounds of no advance warning of the closure at the time of contravention!

The signs could hardly have been clearer, you're really clutching at straws here.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
reca
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 16:52
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 212
Joined: 9 Apr 2020
Member No.: 108,463



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 17:42) *
QUOTE (Deemi @ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 21:54) *
...but thinking to challenge it on the grounds of no advance warning of the closure at the time of contravention!

The signs could hardly have been clearer, you're really clutching at straws here.



The Traffic Signs Manual Ch4 makes clear there should be advance warning sign with a re-route.


Any map‑type advance direction sign should
incorporate the appropriate regulatory roundel (e.g. “no entry” or “no vehicles”). For this type of
junction arrangement, it is not appropriate to provide a sign to diagram 606 pointing to the left or
to the right
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hcandersen
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 17:05
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 35,130
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
From: Woking
Member No.: 21,551



OP, your other half needs to brush up on driving technique and road markings, which are in themselves traffic signs.

Barnabas is not one way but the way in which she virtually hugged the radius on the wrong side of her carriageway is worrying.

Also, item 9 part 6 applies:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2016/362/schedule/9/made

Your car didn't slow down coming out of Barnabas in order to check for traffic, but had it done so then that would have given the driver ample time to observe and turn left, not right.

To be honest, putting together the road sign, failure to slow and observe and executing the turn mostly on the wrong side of the carriageway suggests she was in a hurry. Actually she was lucky that nothing was coming along Berger which then decided to bug out at the last minute and turn right into Barnabas.

Paying the discount was absolutely the right thing to do.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 18:09
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,007
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (reca @ Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 17:52) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 19 Jul 2020 - 17:42) *
QUOTE (Deemi @ Fri, 17 Jul 2020 - 21:54) *
...but thinking to challenge it on the grounds of no advance warning of the closure at the time of contravention!

The signs could hardly have been clearer, you're really clutching at straws here.



The Traffic Signs Manual Ch4 makes clear there should be advance warning sign with a re-route.


Any map‑type advance direction sign should
incorporate the appropriate regulatory roundel (e.g. “no entry” or “no vehicles”). For this type of
junction arrangement, it is not appropriate to provide a sign to diagram 606 pointing to the left or
to the right


I'm sending you a PM.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Wednesday, 10th April 2024 - 06:18
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here