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[NIP Wizard] Can I mitigate for an Educational Course ?
Jcar
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 01:34
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NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - August 2018
Date of the NIP: - 34 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 35 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - Tower Bridge Northbound,Londn.UK .20mph exceed 32mph
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - First
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? - Rent
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I received the NIP to my address and when I asked my friend who is the registered Keeper ,he confirmed to me that he never been sent anything like that before from the police, so for him the police find my details from some where else, therefore under that stress and not knowing what to do I decided to fill the section A and signed as the driver at the time of the alleged offence of exceed a 20mph speed limit in contravention of a local traffic order-automatic camera device, speed 32mph. A week later they send me a Conditional Offer of a fixed penalty 100 and 3points on my licence which I had since 1999 and never been caught speeding before or had an educational course.Now they write that thier records show that I am ineligible for an educational course. I there anything I can do before the deadline ? I am desperately waiting for anything from you members. Thanks


NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - No
Is the NIP addressed to you personally? - Yes
Although you are not the Registered Keeper, were you the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Yes
Which country did the alleged offence take place in? - England

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:
  • The law requires you to provide the information requested in the Section 172 notice within the 28 day period, naming yourself as the driver. If you are considering obtaining formal legal advice, do so before returning the notice.

    You should note that there is nothing to be gained by responding any earlier than you have to at any stage of the process. You are likely to receive a Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty (COFP) and further reminder(s). If you want to continue the fight, you should ignore all correspondence from the police until you receive a summons. You need to understand from the outset that while you will receive much help and support from members on the forums, you will need to put time and effort into fighting your case and ultimately be prepared to stand up in court to defend yourself.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Tue, 09 Oct 2018 01:34:29 +0000
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post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 01:34
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I am Weasel
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 04:56
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There is no right to a course, but they are often offered if the excess speed is below a certain threshold. You have not been offered a course, so your easiest option is to pay the fixed penalty amount AND surrender your licence. Alterantively you could decline to do this, at which point you will be summoned to court where the matter will be heard. Unless you are found not guilty in court, the cost of a court visit is likely to greatly exceed the £100 fixed penalty amount
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The Rookie
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 05:27
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If your friend really is the registered keeper and he really didn’t get a NIP, you have a defence, but I’d be making 100% sure before going that route first step is to get him to show you the V5c registration document and for you to check the details are all correct.

If he didn’t get a NIP, who named you?

You can’t ‘mitigate’ with the police, they decide what action to take based on fixed criteria, you were going too fast for a course hence why you’re ineligible.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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Editing
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 16:42
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Could it be because the upper threashold for a speed awareness course is 10% + 9, so 31, and the op was caught at 32, so ineligible because of that?
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Jcar
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:05
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Thanks,

To be honest I have no ideal on how they calculate the eligibility for a speed awareness course. Any help will be useful for me.
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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:16
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As above. They won’t go outside these thresholds.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Jcar
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:29
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Thank you all.I really appreciate your replies, this is my first speeding offence I am confused and don't know what to do before the deadline.
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peterguk
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:55
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QUOTE (Jcar @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 02:34) *
he confirmed to me that he never been sent anything like that before from the police

the police find my details from some where else


OP, this makes no sense, we need more detail.

Do you have your own insurance for the car? Are you a named driver?

You say you rent the vehicle - who is the RK?

Think about it - there are around millions of drivers in this country. Either the RK named you as the keeper and is not telling you, or there must be another official link to you and the vehicle.

One thing is for sure - the police didn't just guess at you being the driver!

This post has been edited by peterguk: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 17:56


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samthecat
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 18:08
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QUOTE (Jcar @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 18:29) *
Thank you all.I really appreciate your replies, this is my first speeding offence I am confused and don't know what to do before the deadline.


What are you confused about?

You have named yourself as the driver so you have two options, pay the fixed penalty or go to court.

The only real reason to opt for court is to defend the allegation. I would suggest it is unlikely that your NIP is the first one that has been sent out, if it was you would have a defence (Google David Beckham) but as I say it's unlikely. You don't seem to dispute that you were speeding so I can't see anything else to rely on.




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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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Jcar
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:40
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Hi Peterguk and Samthecat

I have my own insurance on this car and I am the named driver but I rent this vehicle from my friend who is the Rk. Indeed I believe in your suggestion that the NIP may not be the first one to be sent out but how can I find out because

my friend the RK keep saying he never received any NIP. Otherwise I could be trying the David Beckham defence if I find out
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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:47
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Regardless, the driver nomination needs completing as failing to do so is a separate offence.

They may well have sourced the information from the insurance database. But this does not mean they didn’t write to the RK in time.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 19:47


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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andy_foster
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 20:08
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 20:47) *
Regardless, the driver nomination needs completing as failing to do so is a separate offence.


Do try to keep up at the back...

QUOTE (Jcar @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 02:34) *
I decided to fill the section A and signed as the driver at the time of the alleged offence of exceed a 20mph speed limit in contravention of a local traffic order-automatic camera device, speed 32mph. A week later they send me a Conditional Offer of a fixed penalty 100 and 3points on my licence





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If you're going to try to contradict me, please at least try to get your facts straight.
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Jcar
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 20:13
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Thanks Jlc and all members for your advises and ideas I feel that I am at the right Forum now.
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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 20:37
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QUOTE (andy_foster @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 21:08) *
Do try to keep up at the back...

A rare transgression wink.gif But better to be safe...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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samthecat
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 22:36
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QUOTE (Jcar @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 20:40) *
Hi Peterguk and Samthecat

I have my own insurance on this car and I am the named driver but I rent this vehicle from my friend who is the Rk. Indeed I believe in your suggestion that the NIP may not be the first one to be sent out but how can I find out because

my friend the RK keep saying he never received any NIP. Otherwise I could be trying the David Beckham defence if I find out


In that case I would call the ticket office and ask.

The reason I say it's unlikely to be the first NIP is that it's issue is well over the 14 days and whilst far from infallible the issuing units do tend to have a basic grasp of the rules. If an initial NIP was sent to the RK and no response received back then Police can check the insurance database which would lead them to you. Obviously can't be certain that this is what happened but it would fit.

The issue you have is if the Police say an NIP was sent out to the RK then it's up to you to prove it wasn't received which is difficult to do.


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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
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The Rookie
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 05:55
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My guess is that the friend is not the RK, you need to get them to show you the registration document, also confirm when it was issued (the ‘docref’ date at the bottom of the second page).


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Mayhem007
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:38
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Isn't all the above irrelevant now that he has signed the NIP and stated that he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence. Surely there is no defence now


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The Rookie
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:41
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No, the 14 day NIP defence isn't impacted by that at all, as you surely know?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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peterguk
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:49
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:38) *
Isn't all the above irrelevant now that he has signed the NIP and stated that he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence. Surely there is no defence now


The NIP recipient is obliged to complete and return the S.172 regardless of whether the NIP was late or not.


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Jlc
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:21
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QUOTE (Mayhem007 @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:38) *
Isn't all the above irrelevant now that he has signed the NIP and stated that he was the driver at the time of the alleged offence. Surely there is no defence now

It's only an admission of being the driver. Defences such as failing to comply with the '14 day rule', signage/TRO or even the alleged speed are all still possible (if they exist).

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:25


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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