Opposing views from two police forces |
Opposing views from two police forces |
Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:56
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#1
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Guests |
I was wondering if anyone could assist.
I have been dealing with two police forces. One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway. The other force says it isn’t. Which one is right? |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:56
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:02
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference.
-------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:36
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#3
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Guests |
Thank you cp8759. That’s great.
Does that include pushing an off road motorbike on the pavement as I understand from here that the pavement is part of the highway? In order to be helpful to the police would you be so kind as to site the legislation as I’ve looked for the relevant part in the Road Traffic Act but can’t seem to find it. This post has been edited by Charlie1010: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:44 |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:49
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#4
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
I was wondering if anyone could assist. I have been dealing with two police forces. One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway. The other force says it isn’t. Which one is right? Probably the one that you didn't make up. -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:07
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#5
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
The pavement is part of the highway, however if a bike is light enough you can get round this by carrying it (as you'd be a pedestrian carrying something), assuming the distance is very short, say from a driveway to a trailer.
Why would you need to "assist" the police with legal advice? Just tell then to read up on PNLD. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:31
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#6
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
It is foolish to rely on the police for any legal advice, as has been proven on here plenty of times.
However fairly clearly an off road bike remains a mechanically propelled vehicle and liable to the same obligations as a normal bike. As was shown to another OP who thought his scooter became a bicycle if he turned the engine off. That said, if you are pushing it, clearly haven't ridden it, and aren't causing a nuisance you may well find that the police have bigger fish to fry. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:12
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#7
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Guests |
Thanks everyone for the information.
They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up. The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal. An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks. |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:20
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#8
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
I didn’t make it up. The police told you that it is not illegal to drive an uninsured vehicle on the highway? -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:29
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 38,006 Joined: 3 Dec 2010 Member No.: 42,618 |
Thanks everyone for the information. They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up. The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal. An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks. Maybe talk to someone in traffic, divisional officers often know f**k all about such matters. And I've known traffic officers to get this sort of thing wrong too. -------------------- If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:33
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Thanks everyone for the information. They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up. The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal. An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks. So “the police” didn’t tell you (as in, via an official communication that had been approved by the force) rather some individual officers gave you their opinions, some of which were ill informed? -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 07:57
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#11
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Guests |
Thanks for the information cp8759.
As a lowly members of the public we expect the police officer to know the law. Thank you to those who were helpful. It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post and I apologise for that. Prosecutor: Something must be done! War would mean a prohibitive increase in our taxes. Chicolini: Hey, I got an uncle lives in Taxes. Prosecutor: No, I'm talking about taxes - money, dollars! Chicolini: Dollars! There's-a where my uncle lives! Dollars, Taxes! |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:24
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#12
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post and I apologise for that. What was the 'obvious typo'? -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:32
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#13
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Guests |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:35
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#14
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
-------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 10:02
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#15
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post Where's the typo? I was wondering if anyone could assist.
I have been dealing with two police forces. One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway. The other force says it isn’t. Which one is right? -------------------- |
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Guest_Charlie1010_* |
Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 10:15
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#16
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Guests |
There must be a village fete to go to or something. Or just a walk.
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:01
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#17
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,306 Joined: 4 Mar 2017 Member No.: 90,659 |
Thanks for the information cp8759. As a lowly members of the public we expect the police officer to know the law. I doubt it, I think almost everyone would want someone with a law degree to represent them in court. Police officers have basic training on legislation and case law, and access to further resources, but they aren't qualified solicitors. You see it repeatedly on here, where there is a dispute a point of law the police will refer it to the courts rather than judge it themselves. In reality 99%+ of the offences a frontline officer will come across will be black and white anyway. This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:01 |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:24
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#18
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,300 Joined: 17 Jun 2011 Member No.: 47,602 |
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference. It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road. |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:12
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#19
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Member Group: Members Posts: 3,768 Joined: 17 Mar 2013 Member No.: 60,602 |
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference. It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road. It's the being on the road that counts. It could be on a trailer with or without wheels & would not require to be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. -------------------- British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012 |
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Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:21
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#20
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,735 Joined: 22 Oct 2007 Member No.: 14,720 |
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference. It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road. It's the being on the road that counts. It could be on a trailer with or without wheels & would not require to be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. ... This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:21 -------------------- |
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