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Opposing views from two police forces
Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:56
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I was wondering if anyone could assist.
I have been dealing with two police forces.
One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway.
The other force says it isn’t.
Which one is right?
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post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 12:56
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cp8759
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:02
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If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference.


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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:36
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Thank you cp8759. That’s great.
Does that include pushing an off road motorbike on the pavement as I understand from here that the pavement is part of the highway?

In order to be helpful to the police would you be so kind as to site the legislation as I’ve looked for the relevant part in the Road Traffic Act but can’t seem to find it.

This post has been edited by Charlie1010: Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:44
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andy_foster
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:49
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:56) *
I was wondering if anyone could assist.
I have been dealing with two police forces.
One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway.
The other force says it isn’t.
Which one is right?


Probably the one that you didn't make up.


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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cp8759
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:07
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The pavement is part of the highway, however if a bike is light enough you can get round this by carrying it (as you'd be a pedestrian carrying something), assuming the distance is very short, say from a driveway to a trailer.

Why would you need to "assist" the police with legal advice? Just tell then to read up on PNLD.


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notmeatloaf
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 15:31
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It is foolish to rely on the police for any legal advice, as has been proven on here plenty of times.

However fairly clearly an off road bike remains a mechanically propelled vehicle and liable to the same obligations as a normal bike. As was shown to another OP who thought his scooter became a bicycle if he turned the engine off.

That said, if you are pushing it, clearly haven't ridden it, and aren't causing a nuisance you may well find that the police have bigger fish to fry.
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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:12
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Thanks everyone for the information.
They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up.
The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal.
An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks.
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andy_foster
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 16:20
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:12) *
I didn’t make it up.


The police told you that it is not illegal to drive an uninsured vehicle on the highway?


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Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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cp8759
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:29
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:12) *
Thanks everyone for the information.
They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up.
The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal.
An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks.

Maybe talk to someone in traffic, divisional officers often know f**k all about such matters. And I've known traffic officers to get this sort of thing wrong too.


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southpaw82
post Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 19:33
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 17:12) *
Thanks everyone for the information.
They are neighbouring forces. I didn’t make it up.
The Sgt at one force said he didn’t think it was illegal and his local neighbourhood beat officer agreed with him but said he would check as he wasn’t sure. Someone I know at the county police HQ in another town said it was illegal.
An officer from the neighbouring force said it was illegal and showed me some material they had published online and for various exhibitions and talks.

So “the police” didn’t tell you (as in, via an official communication that had been approved by the force) rather some individual officers gave you their opinions, some of which were ill informed?


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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 07:57
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Thanks for the information cp8759.
As a lowly members of the public we expect the police officer to know the law.

Thank you to those who were helpful.
It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post and I apologise for that.

Prosecutor: Something must be done! War would mean a prohibitive increase in our taxes.

Chicolini: Hey, I got an uncle lives in Taxes.

Prosecutor: No, I'm talking about taxes - money, dollars!

Chicolini: Dollars! There's-a where my uncle lives! Dollars, Taxes!
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andy_foster
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:24
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:57) *
It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post and I apologise for that.


What was the 'obvious typo'?


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Andy

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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:32
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https://youtu.be/PS5D53h2NGw
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andy_foster
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:35
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 09:32) *


???


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Andy

Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit.
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peterguk
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 10:02
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:57) *
It was obvious that I made a typo in the first post


Where's the typo?

QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 13:56) *
I was wondering if anyone could assist.
I have been dealing with two police forces.
One says it is an offence to push or drive an unlicensed uninsured and unregistered vehicle on the highway.
The other force says it isn’t.
Which one is right?


--------------------
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Guest_Charlie1010_*
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 10:15
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There must be a village fete to go to or something. Or just a walk.
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:01
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QUOTE (Charlie1010 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 08:57) *
Thanks for the information cp8759.
As a lowly members of the public we expect the police officer to know the law.

I doubt it, I think almost everyone would want someone with a law degree to represent them in court.

Police officers have basic training on legislation and case law, and access to further resources, but they aren't qualified solicitors. You see it repeatedly on here, where there is a dispute a point of law the police will refer it to the courts rather than judge it themselves.

In reality 99%+ of the offences a frontline officer will come across will be black and white anyway.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:01
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666
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 11:24
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:02) *
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference.


It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road.
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nigelbb
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:12
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QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:24) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:02) *
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference.


It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road.

It's the being on the road that counts. It could be on a trailer with or without wheels & would not require to be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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peterguk
post Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:21
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QUOTE (nigelbb @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 13:12) *
QUOTE (666 @ Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:24) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sun, 26 Aug 2018 - 14:02) *
If it's a mechanically propelled vehicle, it must be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT. The offences are committed if the wheels are on the road, whether it's being driven, pushed or even if it's just parked up makes no difference.


It's nothing to do with wheels. You can remove the wheels from a parked car: it remains a parked car, using the road.

It's the being on the road that counts. It could be on a trailer with or without wheels & would not require to be registered, taxed, insured and (if over 3 years old) have a valid MOT.


...

This post has been edited by peterguk: Mon, 27 Aug 2018 - 12:21


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