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PE - County Court Defence needed by Friday, Threads merged
ocidets
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 12:14
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Hi,

I hope someone can advise me. I accidently overstayed a free parking period in South Mimms motorway services car park (by almost an hour) in June 2014.

I received the Parking Eye "fine" etc by post, appealed it by stating, had the appeal rejected and then subsequently ignored any other correspondence from them.

I was on holiday over the Easter period and when I got home I found a county court letter on my doormat. I had a couple of days before the acknowledgement of service had to be received by the court. Luckily I just
had enough time to get that in. I posted it back explaining that I would be defending the claim.

Since then I have been researching my best line of defence. Time-wise, I am not sure if I count the court letter date etc, I seem to have 5 days from the "date of service" plus 28 days to get my defence in. I make this
Friday of this week. I have been on various sites including this one and Parking Prankster and paid for the guide, however it looks as though everything hinges on a case (Beavis) result tomorrow - I am not sure whether
I should file an initial defence now, or wait till the Beavis result is known tomorrow. I am a little concerned about time.

I also don't have a robust defence argument set up yet, I simply didn't know there was a charge for parking after the initial free period. And feel that the charge was way too high anyway.

Any advise gratefully received!

Stephen
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post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 12:14
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Jlc
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 12:42
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QUOTE (ocidets @ Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 13:14) *
And feel that the charge was way too high anyway.

If Beavis loses then such a charge may well be 'commercially justified' - depending on the applicability of the ruling.

If you were unaware of the conditions then perhaps the signage was poor?



--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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kommando
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 12:44
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There are guides to defending PE court claims at Parking Pranksters blog, google it.
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Gan
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 12:48
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Use every single point in the Prankster Guide that can apply and use Prankster's language, not phrases like "way too high"

It's been presented as if it applies to every car park but the Beavis car park is unusual that ParkingEye pay £50 000 pa to operate there
The judge said that this gave them land-holder rights and their charge was commercially justified

Even the judge said that this wouldn't apply everywhere, that he was making new law and a different judge might have made a different decision

ParkingEye v Somerfield, that the company likes to present as evidence of a justified charge, actually says about four paragraphs later that the payment isn't owed to ParkingEye at all
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ocidets
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 13:24
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Thank you for all your replies. Having read a little more about this, it looks as though the Beavis case could go either way. I have looked at the Parking Prankster's site and paid for the guide on his site too. I guess that I am best off putting in an initial defence for the moment and then putting in a full defence if Parking Eye decide to take me to court, which I suppose if they win the Beavis case, they will do. I read they always proceed to court anyway.
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kommando
post Wed, 22 Apr 2015 - 13:39
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You are best putting a skeleton defence in now, making a summary of all the points, and then later expanding on all the points in the full defence. Otherwise if you add new points in the full defence then they could be ruled out.
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emanresu
post Thu, 23 Apr 2015 - 05:17
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Also contact South Mimms and see what they can do. The Principal (South Mimms) can either cancel or get you a "deal" as PE have not paid the hearing fee yet. Their costs so far are about £20. Hassle, hassle, hassle and get them to help.

This is assuming you do not want to go to court. If you do then press on with the defence.

This post has been edited by emanresu: Thu, 23 Apr 2015 - 05:17


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ocidets
post Thu, 23 Apr 2015 - 10:50
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Thank you all for your help. I put in an initial defence yesterday. I will see if I can do anything with South Mimms whilst I am waiting for the next action.
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ocidets
post Thu, 11 Jun 2015 - 10:51
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Hi,

I have in the last few days received Notice of "Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track". I also received a HUGE pile of papers from Parking Eye which looks like it addresses some of the defense arguments and I also received a Directions Questionnaire completed by Parking Eye stating that they did not agree to mediation.

I downloaded the Pranksters Guide originally and used a standard (ish) defense from his site with my initial defense listing items such as; the charge being too high, do they have the right to issue invoices for parking etc.

I basically overstayed in a Welcome Break services by almost an hour not realising that there was a charge to stay over the 2 hours "free" period. I don't have any receipt from my stay as my friend paid for our refreshments and paid cash. He got a letter from PE too, but he just paid.

I am just seeing if anyone might be able to offer some advice on this. Should I seek "mediation"? Shall I just complete it and then see what happens? When do I need to file a full defence?

Any help is appreciated.

Stephen
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emanresu
post Fri, 12 Jun 2015 - 04:48
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Might I help by suggesting you keep it all in the one thread. Original here. Ask the mods to merge using the REPORT button.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=98424

Have you contacted Welcome Break and asked them to cancel. They can instruct PE to drop it.


--------------------
Where there is a claim - there is a counterclaim.
Are Parking companies misusing your personal data or interfering with your lease? Counterclaims are only £25. Makes them sit up and take notice. For leaseholds, join in the Managing agents too. Since the purpose of these claims is to frighten you, give them something to be frightened of.
Subject Access Requests to the DVLA?Find out who accessed your data and when. Try SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gsi.gov.uk. [Apologies if it does not work]
Double Dip / ANPR FaultsThe BPA Report on ANPR Double Dips is here. Ideal case for a counterclaim (see above).
Daily Court List. See who is doing what and where here
Printing and posting Witness Statements. Easy and cheap way DoxDirect
What is court like. A District Judge's view
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ocidets
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 09:00
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Thanks emanresu for the advice.

I have contacted Welcome Break and, after a few emails back and forth they have emailed me back to say that they will instruct Parking Eye to cancel the claim.

My question is what should I do now? I am currently booked in for Mediation in July.

Should I notify the court or PE of the fact that Welcome Break are instructing them to cancel?

I have read that even if you persuade the land owner to ask PE to cancel, PE still try to claim around £50 or £60 for "costs".

As always I appreciate your help in this.

(BTW, I have asked for the two topics to be merged, thanks for the info. I can't seem to find my old message using any kind of search facility)

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ostell
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 09:05
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Tell PE, with a copy of the email, that the principal is telling them to cancel. The court are not interested at the moment but will be if PE continue.
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Fredd
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 09:28
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QUOTE (ocidets @ Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 10:00) *
I can't seem to find my old message using any kind of search facility)

Did you try putting your username in the search box (top right of every forum page)?


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ocidets
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 09:32
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QUOTE (ostell @ Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 10:05) *
Tell PE, with a copy of the email, that the principal is telling them to cancel. The court are not interested at the moment but will be if PE continue.


Thank you. I shall do this. Any idea of a script for the letter? Having had this moderate success (I hope), I don't want to muck things up by wording the letter wrongly!

Welcome Break said in their email to do nothing and they will deal with it.

And, Fredd, yes I did try that but it didn't work. I found it by looking through pages until I came across it.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 15:47
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Simple is best. Simple one sentence, stating the principal has instructed them to cancel, and a copy of the email is enclosed. State that you expect them to cancel.
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Gan
post Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 16:56
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Dear Sir

Ref ****

The Principal has informed me that you are to be instructed to cancel the claim.
A copy of this message is enclosed

You have no cause of action and the claim has no prospect of success

Please follow the instruction without delay.
The appointment for mediation now has no purpose and can be cancelled.

Thank You

Yours Faithfully


Expect them to reply that they will only cancel if you pay £60 to compensate them for their expenses so far

They will back down if told to get stuffed

This post has been edited by Gan: Tue, 23 Jun 2015 - 17:10
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ocidets
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 11:40
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Thank you Gan and nosferatu1001 for your advice. I shall send them a letter accordingly. Do you think I should email the Mediation contact that I have (They sent me an email with the appointment details a few days back)?
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Gan
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 12:00
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I would personally not contact the mediation centre other than to confirm the appointment

It's ParkingEye's decision whether or not to continue the claim

If the mediation goes ahead you have a good reason to offer nothing at all
You will also leave a mediator with a good reason to dislike ParkingEye
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ocidets
post Wed, 24 Jun 2015 - 13:44
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Thank you. Great advice. Much appreciated.
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ocidets
post Thu, 23 Jul 2015 - 11:45
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Just a quick update on my case in the hope that I can get some more advice from you knowledgeable folk!

Since Welcome Break agreed to ask PE to cancel my ticket, I went through mediation last week (which had already been agree by both parties before Welcome Break got involved). The mediator agreed with me that I couldn't really negotiate if the land owner had agreed to cancel the ticket so that process was quite quick.

Predictably PE want their "costs" to be paid. They asked Welcome Break who didn't reply and as I have refused the mediator said this case shall have to proceed to court.

Earlier this week I received a letter saying that this was being allocated and that I would get notification of this shortly. I assume this will now definitely end up in court then?

Is there anything I should do? I assume that the email from the land owner stating that they would cancel the PE ticket is a pretty water tight defence?

Many thanks for your advice in advance as always!
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