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Received S171/172, Parking on double yellows.
Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:03
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Received a S171/172 in the post via recorded mail, it was signed for by my 14yrs old, and opened by me, the alleged offence date is 02/10/18 time 09:40hrs and letter was received 12/10/18 recorded royal mail.
Contained within the letter is as described as S172 to name the driver.

It has the constables name on the letter and her telephone and extension number if I wished to request the evidence photo/DVD, it said in bold on the bottom of the letter to requies it this way and not via mail, so when you ring this number it rings for 5 mins then rings off everytime you ring it ive tried just the number and when you ring with the extension number provided it says "the number you have dialed has not been recognised, please hang up and dial again" ive been trying all week to call her with a bit more info.

Also enclosed was a Self Addressed envelope to this officer to send the S172 back to her there was no additional copy for my records although it stated there was in her letter.

Upon looking at my dashcam log of this day. It seems the constable have sent this to me in relation to a Operation Snap submission that I had made and I can see where she has drawn a conclusion I was parking on double yellows, But she has also assumed that I am on double yellows and not just close to its termination marker and of a driver without disabilities and Blue Badge.

On the 13th I completed the S172 and sent it special delivery using her own SAE that was provided cost me £6.50 but I though its worth the money if it can be sorted quickly, its a guaranteed before 1pm delivery so should have got there by Monday 15th (tracking number JS144929675GB), after checking that it hadn't been delivered by 4pm on the 15th I called royal mail to query, It had been delivered in error to a different delivery office and it was being redirected to the correct one, he told me as it had failed its 1pm delivery slot he would send me a claim form for my money back and guaranteed it would get its destination by 1pm on the 16th.

4pm came on the 16th and its status online track and trach is still showing at the correct Delivery office as Ready for Delivery, I called the delivery office in question, and all I can say is that I got a rude employee who couldn't have cared less and told me to consider it lost and hung up.
Called the PO claims line who escalated it to an investigation, he told me these can last a month or two.

I had the Constables e-mail address from outcomes of previous submissions so on the 16th, I sent a E-mail asking for another copy of her S172, explained the above provided the track and trace number and claim number reference PO gave me, ive had no reply.

Yesterday after nothing back from PO about this letter going a stray, I tried again to contact the constable dealing with this, through the main switchboard line. I got put through to Serious crimes then out through to Serious crash investigations unit then put through to traffic enforcement, then got put through to road casualty reduction partnership where I was told she is in today but not answering her phone, the chap gave me a mobile number said give it half hour and try her again. I did this and I got hung up on (5 rings and beep beep beep), I gave it half an hour rang back where after what seemed an eternity it went to a voice mail messaging service I left a message for her to call me back left my number etc this was about mid day, had no call back.

Im at a loss as what else I can physically do now. Im thinking now I just leave it and see if they send me a reminder/summons for FTF.

Heres some pictures from the alleged offence tell me what you think! pic one is what she would have, Pic two is the space I was parked in pic three is my bb.



This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:08
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post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:03
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Jlc
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:21
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:03) *
Im at a loss as what else I can physically do now. Im thinking now I just leave it and see if they send me a reminder/summons for FTF.

The alleged offence won't be at all relevant if they pursue a FTF. Why can't you simply provide the driver's details on your own (signed) letter? No need to special delivery either.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:33
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:21) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:03) *
Im at a loss as what else I can physically do now. Im thinking now I just leave it and see if they send me a reminder/summons for FTF.

The alleged offence won't be at all relevant if they pursue a FTF. Why can't you simply provide the driver's details on your own (signed) letter? No need to special delivery either.

Yes sorry I should have included this bit with my OP, This Constable already has a witness statement from me via the Operation snap to state I was driving as you have to declare it upon submitting evidence.

I could write my own letter but after this letter getting lost either by Royal mails fault or refusal to accept service by the department as its wrong address in some way I am unable to know if this address right one that I have for her hence why I wanted to know what the PO said about it so im reluctant to write one just yet until I know what the PO investigation was.
I think that course of action for the moment is reasonable don't you think?

I send all my letters signed for when dealing with government departments, landlords, nhs im pretty meticulous like that.

This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:34
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Jlc
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:41
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I'd simply supply the details under normal 1st class post - with a free proof of postage.

A FTF 'fight' will be at court and this could all be avoided, even if you have a 'good' defence.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:47


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:45
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Show us the dashcam video


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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:47
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:45) *
Show us the dashcam video

unfortunately I cannot as it is part of evidence, I am restricted as to where I can post as I cant post it anywhere on forums or social media it as its still a live open case.

This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 13:47
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peterguk
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:53
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:45) *
Show us the dashcam video

unfortunately I cannot as it is part of evidence, I am restricted as to where I can post as I cant post it anywhere on forums or social media it as its still a live open case.

Who told you that?
We regularly see witness statements etc.


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Logician
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 15:03
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:33) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:21) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:03) *
Im at a loss as what else I can physically do now. Im thinking now I just leave it and see if they send me a reminder/summons for FTF.
The alleged offence won't be at all relevant if they pursue a FTF. Why can't you simply provide the driver's details on your own (signed) letter? No need to special delivery either.
Yes sorry I should have included this bit with my OP, This Constable already has a witness statement from me via the Operation snap to state I was driving as you have to declare it upon submitting evidence. I could write my own letter but after this letter getting lost either by Royal mails fault or refusal to accept service by the department as its wrong address in some way I am unable to know if this address right one that I have for her hence why I wanted to know what the PO said about it so im reluctant to write one just yet until I know what the PO investigation was. I think that course of action for the moment is reasonable don't you think? I send all my letters signed for when dealing with government departments, landlords, nhs im pretty meticulous like that.


In some cases 'signed for' is counter-productive, as it has been here, either because it gets pulled out of the normal delivery system or the organisation concerned is not set up to sign for letters. Send a letter stating that you are writing in response to a s.172 request as the reply method specified has not been successful. The driver of vehicle xxxx at the time and location specified was xxxxx. Send it normal post but hand it in at a Post Office and get a free postage receipt.

Waiting for the outcome of a PO investigation is not reasonable, unless you want to fight about it in court. Send the letter and get proof that you have, and you have a much more robust defence.



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southpaw82
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 15:59
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So... you dobbed another driver in and are now being investigated because of the footage you used to dob them in? Couldn’t make it up.


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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:11
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:03) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:33) *
QUOTE (Jlc @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:21) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:03) *
Im at a loss as what else I can physically do now. Im thinking now I just leave it and see if they send me a reminder/summons for FTF.
The alleged offence won't be at all relevant if they pursue a FTF. Why can't you simply provide the driver's details on your own (signed) letter? No need to special delivery either.
Yes sorry I should have included this bit with my OP, This Constable already has a witness statement from me via the Operation snap to state I was driving as you have to declare it upon submitting evidence. I could write my own letter but after this letter getting lost either by Royal mails fault or refusal to accept service by the department as its wrong address in some way I am unable to know if this address right one that I have for her hence why I wanted to know what the PO said about it so im reluctant to write one just yet until I know what the PO investigation was. I think that course of action for the moment is reasonable don't you think? I send all my letters signed for when dealing with government departments, landlords, nhs im pretty meticulous like that.


In some cases 'signed for' is counter-productive, as it has been here, either because it gets pulled out of the normal delivery system or the organisation concerned is not set up to sign for letters. Send a letter stating that you are writing in response to a s.172 request as the reply method specified has not been successful. The driver of vehicle xxxx at the time and location specified was xxxxx. Send it normal post but hand it in at a Post Office and get a free postage receipt.

Waiting for the outcome of a PO investigation is not reasonable, unless you want to fight about it in court. Send the letter and get proof that you have, and you have a much more robust defence.

I am in the middle of compiling a new letter of S172 and will send it in the mail with receipt.
Ill also send her the photo's above.

The video is literally footage of picture 1 for 3 mins with cars coming and going I do not move Pic two is a snapshot of footage I managed to save form the dashcams SDcard and uploaded off my phone when I had the chance to extract it from a long list of file corruptions from a format gone wrong on the dashcam. Im not going to post it up as ive been requested not to by Operation Snap, I know police has prosecuted on evidence posted on youtube etc and forums, but at the moment I don't want this one dropped (this Constable drops a lot of my footage due to "evidential tests" or "unforeseen circumstances") and she is twitchy about social media. I usually leave it 6 months then pass on the footage to Welshdrive on youtube as that is what I consider enough time to get it to court and police to contact me for witness.

So I will take your advice guys I will post back with a update. Got to buy some ink for the printer tomorrow and then Monday ill post it with proof of postage from the cashiers desk. I just hope the address Is right on what was given.

QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:59) *
So... you dobbed another driver in and are now being investigated because of the footage you used to dob them in? Couldn’t make it up.

That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!

1 1/2 weeks Before this the constable came out to encourage me not to upload evidence of poor driving by council staff!

then this.

This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:06
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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:42
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:47) *
QUOTE (cp8759 @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 14:45) *
Show us the dashcam video

unfortunately I cannot as it is part of evidence, I am restricted as to where I can post as I cant post it anywhere on forums or social media it as its still a live open case.

Are you more interested in not being prosecuted yourself, or ensuring a successful prosecution of the other driver?


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peterguk
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:47
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!


Parking offences became decriminalised decades ago.



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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:55
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Just out of interest what is the offence alleged against you? If it's parking on double yellow, it should be easy to defend if you had a BB on display (plod would have no reason to know you're a BB holder unless you've told them).

QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
The video is literally footage of picture 1 for 3 mins with cars coming and going I do not move Pic two is a snapshot of footage I managed to save form the dashcams SDcard and uploaded off my phone when I had the chance to extract it from a long list of file corruptions from a format gone wrong on the dashcam. Im not going to post it up as ive been requested not to by Operation Snap, I know police has prosecuted on evidence posted on youtube etc and forums, but at the moment I don't want this one dropped (this Constable drops a lot of my footage due to "evidential tests" or "unforeseen circumstances") and she is twitchy about social media. I usually leave it 6 months then pass on the footage to Welshdrive on youtube as that is what I consider enough time to get it to court and police to contact me for witness.

So you're a dashcam warrior who does't appreciate what the prosecutorial thresholds are. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the CPS Code for Crown Prosecutors as it will save the police having to review an awful lot of useless footage. See https://www.cps.gov.uk/publication/code-crown-prosecutors

QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
1 1/2 weeks Before this the constable came out to encourage me not to upload evidence of poor driving by council staff!

Well we've established that your ability to judge what is "poor driving" is questionable so I can see where she's coming from.

As for the section 172 I would send them a letter by 1st class post, no tracking, just get a free certificate of posting from the post office counter. There is then a presumption of delivery two working days later (section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978) and it would be for the police to rebut the presumption.

QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:47) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!


Parking offences became decriminalised decades ago.



Depends where you are. Where I live they're decriminalised, 10 minutes down the road in the next county they're not.


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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 16:55
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:47) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!


Parking offences became decriminalised decades ago.



parking has not yet been devolved from my force area to our local council that's happening April 2019.
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Logician
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:00
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!


Just how many submissions have you made? It sounds like a great many, and you are going looking for things to report.

Perhaps they have made an exception in your case because you are driving them mad.



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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:24
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QUOTE (Logician @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 18:00) *
QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:11) *
That's not the end of it, its states on the Operation snap website they don't deal with parking!


Just how many submissions have you made? It sounds like a great many, and you are going looking for things to report.

Perhaps they have made an exception in your case because you are driving them mad.

7 since 10/12/17. I don't do many miles per year either ive currently in my car since January when I purchased it done just over 3k miles. Im not out everyday stopped in some layby looking for speeder and mobile phone users and red light runners, I just submit what I notice on a normal drive if I think its enough to warrant reporting it.

This post has been edited by Atrixblue.-MFR-.: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:29
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bobthesod
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:32
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I couldn't possibly comment
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southpaw82
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 17:49
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QUOTE (bobthesod @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 18:32) *
I couldn't possibly comment

Probably best. I went as far as is permissible.


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peterguk
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 18:10
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QUOTE (Atrixblue.-MFR-. @ Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 18:24) *
I just submit what I notice on a normal drive if I think its enough to warrant reporting it.


Out of interest - why?


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Atrixblue.-MFR-.
post Sat, 20 Oct 2018 - 18:16
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I had some good advice, im following it, im not going to be made to feel ive done something wrong in making some submissions to operation snap its what its therefore and I use it if you guys don't like it then that's tough you entitled to your opinions but you know what they say about opinions don't you?.

Yes ive been sent this but it was sent without plod knowing all the bees knees and perhaps I should have bold underlined and italic the part where i said I was parked on the side of the road with my BB displayed perhaps they thought they would see a reflection of it but its not placed on the dash its in a holder on my sun visor which im now thinking perhaps I should put it in camera's view next time if the camera will see it with a polarizing filter (filters reflection and UV glare). Regardless of this my main question was moving forward from the postal issue, I got my answer and following advice.
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