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"Car dooring" in the spotlight
The Rookie
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 04:22
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41219977

With reference to 'car dooring' of cyclists, a significant issue in major cities and highlighted by a recent case were a cyclist was killed and the person causing the death by opening the door got just a £80 fine.

Ridiculous cycle lanes placed outside rows of parked cars leaving cyclists riding along in the door zone exemplify how little non cyclists understand of the issue.



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post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 04:22
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fedup2
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 06:53
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If your thick enough to use that cycle path then i guess you get whats coming,infact you gotta be thick to get on one in the first place its a very dangerous pastime.Looks like someone wants to get rid of a few smile.gif
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glasgow_bhoy
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 08:11
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Devils advocate here...

When taught to drive, we're taught to leave enough of a gap so as to allow car doors to open. Infact I know someone who had a 50:50 insurance claim after she took someones car door off in a town centre driving too close.

Why isn't the same standard expected of cyclists?



As an aside note, they want to teach people learning to drive how to open a car door using the Dutch technique? IMO its passengers who are generally the problem, not the drivers. And that would be one of the things drivers would disregard as soon as they pass their tests anyway.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 09:55
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The primary responsibility is the person opening the door, I agree cyclists have to take responsibility for their own actions as well, although of course training isn't compulsory. The responsibility is clearly different passing a parked car, versus a stopped in the road car or one travelling at low speed.

Putting cycles lanes in car door zones obviously warps that as you are 'telling' (requesting, encouraging) the cyclist to ride there which must take some responsibility from them.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 12:43
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 10:55) *
The primary responsibility is the person opening the door, I agree cyclists have to take responsibility for their own actions as well, although of course training isn't compulsory. The responsibility is clearly different passing a parked car, versus a stopped in the road car or one travelling at low speed.

Putting cycles lanes in car door zones obviously warps that as you are 'telling' (requesting, encouraging) the cyclist to ride there which must take some responsibility from them.


therein lies the problem, It's some one else's responsibility and therefore fault
If I'm walking along the pavement and some one has dug a hole, I can see it it's up to me not to walk into it regardless there is no barrier or other warning

Same on a bike I know there are parked cars, I know some one might open the door so it's my responsibility to take care that the don't hit me with it so don't ride along staring at the top of my front wheel dreaming of the tour de france
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StuartBu
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 12:51
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QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 09:11) *
As an aside note, they want to teach people learning to drive how to open a car door using the Dutch technique?


Which is opening the door using your "opposing" hand which limits how far the door opens ...unless you let go of it of course and the result of that depends on age of car,slope of road etc etc .
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bama
post Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 20:53
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QUOTE
The responsibility is clearly different passing a parked car, versus a stopped in the road car.

Not when the cyclist can see there is a person/people in the parked car.


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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glasgow_bhoy
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 08:57
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 10:55) *
The primary responsibility is the person opening the door, I agree cyclists have to take responsibility for their own actions as well, although of course training isn't compulsory. The responsibility is clearly different passing a parked car, versus a stopped in the road car or one travelling at low speed.

Putting cycles lanes in car door zones obviously warps that as you are 'telling' (requesting, encouraging) the cyclist to ride there which must take some responsibility from them.

So perhaps the first thing we should be doing before all other steps is making cycling proficiency training compulsary- that will go some way to helping.

I'd agree parked car versus car in traffic are different, but IMO a car in traffic shouldn't be opening a door without checking mirrors anyway as it could easily be another car or anything ready to hit a passenger alighting in a live lane if not right by the pavement. If by the pavement the logical thing to do is make sure your close in enough to the kerb that nobody can try to squeeze by you.

And I really don't know the answer to the stupid cycle lane pictured above. Would it be safer to scrap the lane and just make the cyclists go out with the traffic? Best case scenario is that the road is big enough to allow the parking bays to be wide enough that nobody who parks properly tight against the kerb will have their door open into the cycle lane, but I suspect its the ones who are a bit lazy with their parking who are the problem here.



QUOTE (StuartBu @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 13:51) *
QUOTE (glasgow_bhoy @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 09:11) *
As an aside note, they want to teach people learning to drive how to open a car door using the Dutch technique?


Which is opening the door using your "opposing" hand which limits how far the door opens ...unless you let go of it of course and the result of that depends on age of car,slope of road etc etc .

I tried it yesterday. In my three door car, the door as you say only opens a very limited amount. Not only that, but it hurt like hell twisting the top of my back that way and pushing the door (sporting a current neck/back injury). In a five door car it was much easier and the door opened plenty for me to get out.

But this technique would be more beneficial to three door car users as the doors open wider and are more likely to take out passing bikists.
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The Rookie
post Tue, 12 Sep 2017 - 19:03
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QUOTE (bama @ Mon, 11 Sep 2017 - 21:53) *
QUOTE
The responsibility is clearly different passing a parked car, versus a stopped in the road car.

Not when the cyclist can see there is a person/people in the parked car.

You may want to try reading what you quoted.......


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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