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Notice to Keeper from Euro Car Park
TimmyC
post Sun, 17 Jan 2021 - 14:52
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Hi All,

Asking for advice again with respect to the above topic.

I received a Notice to Keeper from Euro Car Park (ECP) on 7th Jan 2021 as the registered keeper. To summarise, the driver entered a car park at BP Leyton on 27/11/2020 at 11:26:56 and exited the car park at 12:24:22 so the total time in the car park was over the time allowed for finding a parking spot. The driver was waiting in the car for someone not aware of the parking restriction.

On 8th Jan 21, I received the NTK below but from what I’ve gathered, the ECP has failed to adhere to the PoF Act by notifying the keeper after the ‘relevant period’. The event was on the 27th Nov, they posted the NTK on the 6th January, two working days after this is 8th January, in line with POFA 9 (6). A total of 42 days after the event, is therefore well in excess of the relevant period of 14 days.

The only thing I’m unclear about is the required warnings specified in 9 (2) (f). Are these included in the NTK as shown and so make it valid?

Again, many thanks in advance!

Tim





This post has been edited by TimmyC: Sun, 17 Jan 2021 - 14:52
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post Sun, 17 Jan 2021 - 14:52
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TimmyC
post Wed, 16 Jun 2021 - 15:20
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Thanks again.... It looks as if the date is 9th Dec 20 which is after the event but also over a month after I acquired the vehicle. Am I right in this assumption?



This post has been edited by TimmyC: Wed, 16 Jun 2021 - 21:53
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DWMB2
post Wed, 16 Jun 2021 - 15:40
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Yes that's right (you might want to remove that image as it contains reference numbers you might not want the public to see!)

What that could mean is that the vehicle's details were not up-to-date with DVLA at the time they were requested by ECP. As for why that happened, I don't know - one reason could be the seller taking too long to send the document off.


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TimmyC
post Wed, 16 Jun 2021 - 20:25
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Thanks, @DWMB2, I've updated the image and post now.

It appears it was either the seller or the car dealer who didn't update DVLA promptly, and then only when the previous owner got the NTK on, or shortly after 2 December 2020 as the V5 shows 9 Dec 20 as the update. It was still 23 days until the new NTK was issued

Is there a case that I can make regarding this?

cheers.
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TimmyC
post Sun, 20 Jun 2021 - 08:02
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Last post to see if anyone has any suggestion on this before I pay up... :-(
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ostell
post Sun, 20 Jun 2021 - 11:05
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Not only was the notice late in being delivered to you, the keeper, required statement 9 2 (e) was not given either so still no keeper liability.

POFA makes no guidance on what happens if the DVLA get it wrong, merely they have to deliver to keeper within 14 days. You were the keeper, just not the registered keeper. Definitions in 2 (1) say:
""keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;" You can show that you were the keeper at the time, just not the registered keeper so the relevant period still applies

You also have that other POFA fail. Up to you if you pay or wait to see if they do take it to court.

POPLA were confused in their response. They are stating that POFA requires the NTK to go to the registered keeper, no it doesn't, it specifies keeper

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 20 Jun 2021 - 11:09
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TimmyC
post Wed, 23 Jun 2021 - 08:09
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Hi Ostell, thanks for the response. I'm pretty sure they did give required statement 9 2 (e). I think it's in para 5, sentence 2 "we do not know the drivers name or current postal address". I'll take a look to see what the risk is if I go to court. Ideally, I don't want any additional costs other than what I have already of course!

Cheers.
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ostell
post Wed, 23 Jun 2021 - 08:26
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They gave only a part of 9 (2) (e)
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jun 2021 - 12:52
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Saying they don't know who the driver is, is NOT an invitation , as is required.
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TimmyC
post Thu, 24 Jun 2021 - 17:29
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Thanks for the comments... I see what you mean now. They've asked for details of the driver but haven't invited ME, as the registered Keeper to pay the charge.

So what happens now if I don't pay/do nothing? They either take it to Court or just stop pursuing it? Is there anything I should do? unsure.gif
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Redx
post Thu, 24 Jun 2021 - 18:55
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They can and do have debt collector letters sent

They may have a formal 30 days LBC sent to you , with financial forms included

They may issue an MCOL claim Via the CCBC in Northampton , on the assumption that the keeper and driver are the same entity

They can do any of the above for 6 years in England and Wales , 5 in Scotland


POFA only protects a keeper who was not the driver , in England and Wales

Nothing is certain , it's all ifs and buts
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TimmyC
post Thu, 24 Jun 2021 - 21:14
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Thanks Redx. I'll wait and see what happens as it looks as if I've nothing to lose. There doesn't appear to be a time limit to pay now.
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TimmyC
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 09:10
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Hi All,

I've now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus as it looks as if the parking operator has passed this off to them now. Can anyone give me some advice as to how to move forward with this other than to just pay it of course! tongue.gif

Cheers!



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ostell
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 09:46
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So you write back to DRP and point out that their client failed to comply with POFA, ie, in their own phrasing in their checklist "the operator DID NOT comply with the relevant legislation" and there can be no liability. Continuing to write when there is no liability is harassment.

This post has been edited by ostell: Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 09:47
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 10:24
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Or ignore as it's just drp.
Or tell them to FROAD
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TimmyC
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 10:55
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Thanks both.. had to google FROAD... i thought I was already down with the hip folk unsure.gif

I think I'll go with your advice Ostell just to get this resolved as quickly as possible one way or another.

Cheers. icon_thumleft.gif
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DWMB2
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 10:58
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I'm not sure many of us on here can be described as 'hip folk'.

Contacting them may help to set out your stall, and show you know what you're talking about, but don't expect it to resolve the matter. They'll almost certainly keep contacting you.


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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 11:17
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Drp wil pay not one single iota of attention to you. Communication with them is a waste of energy
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TimmyC
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 12:04
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Jeez... it feels I've contracted something that you'd typically buy some cream to clear up wink.gif

I will write to them if only to i) set out my stall as DWMB2 says ii) show that I've not ignored this if it does go to court.

Thanks again for your help... really appreciate it as I'm sure most people here do.
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nosferatu1001
post Sun, 18 Jul 2021 - 12:16
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No problem doing so. Just don't think it will help resolve this. Drp want yiur money and nothing else. They, like the ppcs, are parasites.
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Nosy Parker
post Fri, 15 Jul 2022 - 17:45
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Any update? It’s been nearly a year …
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