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Euro car parks Gatwick south BP station PCN, Blue badge displayed in the windscreen and holder present
Alongstory
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 01:21
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Apologies for a rude start (I will do an intro tomorrow), but time is not my friend, does anyone have any pictures, or links to them, specifically the disabled bay, as a notice to the keeper of the car was posted to here, as those with the car can't recall seeing any disabled notices on the bay, and the pictures of the entrance that have been found only say about displaying the badge, in the bay, which was done, as the disabled person is on over 9,800 pills a year, mainly for pain, being disabled for over 30 years, which has put a great strain on the persons stomach, so when the persons stomach starts to go bad, they have to get close to a toilet ASAP, and dares not move from it until their stomach becomes under control again, or it could get very messy very quickly, then the car was further delayed in exiting by gridlock coming back from the top of the slip road, right into the pumps, so it was bumper to bumper with cars trying to get out, inching on to let the next person get fuel and so on, blocking the car from reversing out of the bay to be able to leave, the details;

Date on record = 03/07/19;
Date issued = 12/07/19;
Date due = 26/07/19;
ANPR camera in = 06.54;
ANPR out = 07.35;

Any info would be a great help, TIA.

This post has been edited by Alongstory: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 21:04
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post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 01:21
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The Rookie
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 06:12
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Perhaps try re-writing that so it makes some sense and isn’t just a jumble of bits and pieces of information.

Reason for parking is irrelevant, so don’t bother putting that in.

Was there a windscreen ticket, does the NtK have a photo of the car parked or entering and exiting the car park.


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ostell
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 08:17
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Reason for parking could be relevant if the Equality Act is brought into the argument

What was the alleged breach?

Post up the redacted PCN
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 09:07
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Why do you need a picture of the bay? How will that help? Surely a picture of signs would help, to see what the signs say about use of the bay? What is the alleged issue - an overstay?
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Alongstory
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 13:38
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Sorry guy's, I was in a bad way last night, my PC is messed up and needs a reinstall, point in fact I've just spent the last 30 minutes trying to scan the letter to put up, and that was my 3rd attempt at postimg last night, the page just kept reloading, wiping what I put each time, so I wrote that post in my word program and pasted it in to get past that, and my back was about to kick off, so I had to get to bed with my meds aiming to finish this off today.

Anyway the reason I am asking about any pictures, is because of the disabled part, as the person was parking in accordance with the blue badge bay, and as such there is no time limit, unless there is something contrary to this, hence the pictures to support this, which is why I was trying to put down the facts above, thinking the badge would negate that.

They had ANPR camera shots of my number plate going in the out, these was no ticket on the windscreen, this came through the post as they got the keepers details from the DVLA, anyway here is the form, needless to say I whited out the specific names\details etc, I hope I am making a bit more sense now, Thanks for the replies, and sorry again I wasn't clearer.


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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 13:46
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"and as such there is no time limit"

How do you know that? A blue badge has NO meaning on private land.
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Alongstory
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 14:47
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Well they provide disabled parking bays, they note on the sign that was found, saying that holders must display their badge clearly, and park within the allotted bay correctly, they can't give with one hand, then take from the other, hence looking for pictures of the disabled bay, and without any clarity therefore the permission is inherent IMHO, and even without that, there was also medical born cause for contributing to the delayed exit, being on drugs for managing pain for over 29 years, it has caused no end of issues.

Many people may have had to use Codeine for pain at some point, so those that have may understand this a bit more, now apply that to many years on them, it has been replaced by Morphine as they were no longer working, but the life long damage was already done, and having a a very rare condition, that means all my muscles are dying, including heart and breathing etc, so there is not a lot of control when the stomach decides to turn bad, there is no real ability to control what happens next, what I posted above was a quick go to try and explain the situation.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 15:00
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OK, so SHOW US THE SIGNS!

ITs ONLY the signs that matter.

The signs create (offer) any alleged contract.
Nothing about the clauses you said states that there is no time limit. Nothing. I know this, because it is silent on the matter of any time limits.

So, show us the signs. Or not.

I am aware of and have sympathy for your situation. HOwever if you dont follow the experience on here, you will flail around ineffectualy and have a good chance of ending up in court.
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ostell
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 17:28
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OK get on with writing an appeal. They have not complied with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act and therefore the keeper cannot be held liable.

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Alongstory
post Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 20:59
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One can only go on what they know, and trying to piece it all together, the fact of being here obviously means there is lots of stuff that is unknown, well parts of it anyway, people arrive here for helping to understand what to do, and what it all means, there are so many acronyms thrown everywhere it's hard going searching the term, and trying to remember it each time they are used, pictures of the signs would help to understand better, and the sign wasn't that clear when passing it, should a person wear distance glasses for driving.

There is no way a person could take in the detail because it would be illegible to anyone in the same situation, this may get roasted as well, but a person can only hope for help with what to do next, as the clock is down to 2 hours now, but no offence will be taken from anything above, nor anything that follows, one can only hope that people remember what their first experience was like in such things, as we are all human, but regardless, Thanks for all the replies above.

*edit
Talk about a lot of head scratching, looking at part 4 it states so many things you end up going round in circles, but there was a part saying they must identify the vehicle, the make was given, but not model, is that enough for them to fulfill that part of it all ?

This post has been edited by Alongstory: Fri, 26 Jul 2019 - 21:28
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ostell
post Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 06:40
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You look at POFA and in particular paragraph 9 as that applies to you. Note tha 9 (2) starts with "must". Are all the things that must be there actually there? If not then they cannot hold the keeper liable, only the unknown driver.

Ranting about the blue badge, although annoying, is not going to get you anywhere at the moment. On private land the BB means diddly squat.

They have failed to give the period of parking, moving in front of a camera cannot, by definition, be parking
They have failed yo give the invitation to keeper required by 9 (2) (e)

See if you can find more. They are required to make additional allowancea to the disabled occupant of the car, under the Equality Act 2010, failure to do so is a criminal offence

This post has been edited by ostell: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 06:51
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Alongstory
post Sat, 27 Jul 2019 - 16:46
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Sorry if it came across as ranting, it was Never, meant in that way, it was simply stating the actual facts as to what was there, and as one understood them, and the reason for pictures was so one can look more closely and try to gage them with the input above to gain a greater understanding of what was being said, that was all one was trying to put across.

A response to them via resolver (figured it would be better than using their site) was sent on the last second, due to trying to edit and cut out such padding as suggested above, but I doubt that it was anywhere near as cut down as suggested, in fact it was definitely not reduced enough as suggested, but time to respond had ended, I only wish I had this detail last night, but Thank you for the info, it IS, Greatly appreciated. 🍻

They did put the time on each picture (entry\exit) of the number plate, but ones guessing that is not enough from what you have said ?

One is not doubting Anything, in all the above replies, the Only, thing one is trying to do is to Understand the content given, so one can more accurately comprehend, and follow the suggestions above, because without the understanding, it is so much harder to put it together, especially when pain is involved, for which one is on 2 different types of Morphine among the above, and it does not do that much to help, it just keeps it under the need for an ambulance at bay, one can only hope this gives a greater understanding of taking all this in, because there is no point in a person copying and pasting sections that has been given trying to make a sentence from them, a person has to understand it as well, which currently is what one is trying to do.

One will try looking as per suggested to see if anything stands out, but the biggest query now is does one respond to any response from them ?

Again sorry if anything above seemed out of place etc, the only thing one is trying to do is understand.
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Alongstory
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 15:57
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Hi guy's, sorry it's taken so long to get back here, as the favourites (web browser) had vanished after a reinstall, and it took a while to find you again, so here is the latest update, as you use peoples input to see if it helps in some occurrences with the outcomes etc.

They have responded to the appeal via Resolver, and have attached their response to this, including a picture, and talk about putting pressure on it is massive for those who don't know about these things, and they have even said that "You have now reached the end of our internal appeals procedure", and that £100 is now due (which one suspects that is wrong as well), and the message part of their response said:-
"PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL - it has been produced from an address that cannot accept incoming email"

So just wondering here, should it be escalated now (Resolver say's it can be, if they will no longer respond) ?
Using Resolver to keep it all in one place means it should continue there obviously, but if one responds would it be picked up given Resolver sends the mail ?

The last thing one needs is to have a knock at the door and taking the car or any extra costs because of these things.
Pretty sure the answer is yes, but you guys know more than most ever will about this kind of thing, also is it worth contacting the petrol stations main office to see what they may do about this ?
And if so should this be direct, or via Resolver ?
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ostell
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 17:55
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So you now appeal to POPLA using the failures to comply with POFA. You also question their right to operate and require a copy of the contract and not a statement saying it exists.

Look at other POPLA appeals
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Sheffield Dave
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 19:14
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You will only potentially get a knock on the door if they take you court, you lose (or you ignore and fail to defend), then you don't pay up within 28 days.
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Alongstory
post Tue, 10 Sep 2019 - 20:39
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Yeah guessed that would be the case to take it higher now, just wasn't sure on the best direction, but it's got to be via Resolver logically, to keep it in a single place, but it makes sense to see other appeals beforehand, no doubt on this site, so will have a look around and see what comes up, but is it worth approaching the garages head office, and if so, via what media would be the best ?

But the door knock is the biggest worry, the wife watches all these bailiffs and sheriffs and the like programs, and many times the first someone knows is the knock on the door, obviously many of those people are blagging it, but there are true situations among them as well, and even the guys serving the paper want to help them some of them, and believe them, but because they hold that piece of paper, they have to carry out their duty, and the person is left high and dry as they say, they should use a signed for service in getting the mail, that way it is harder for them to deny it, but I know mail goes missing, as for around 8 months 7 out of 10 letters on average never arrived, and they were expected mail, it was only sorted after making the post office do a proof of posting for everything that was sent out, even the junk mail ones, it soon stopped after that, so these things can happen, and that is scary to think about.

Thanks for all the input guys, will start looking at this now.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 07:44
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No, you use POPLA, as told.

You ask them via whatever route you can find that seems best to you. There is no answer to that question that we can give you.

There is NO DOOR KNOCK!
Firstly ECP dont do court
Secondly if they DO court you would have to lose (in a hearing or by messsing up the process) AND you would have to not pay within one month.
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ostell
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 10:27
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Post up your POPLA appeal here for critique before sending
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Alongstory
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:21
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I am so out of depth here, and I have gone cross eyed trying to follow the different parts, so may run out of time to post here, but I do seriously hope to do it, but while looking around, I note that Resolver's escalate takes it to POPLA from what I see, or should I go directly there ?
I'm not trying to question the advice as such, I'm just trying to do it in the most appropriate way, so any clarity to this would be greatly received, now to see if I can get something done.

Thanks for all the help again guys.

* edit
Just wondering if the system must catch front and rear plates, or can both just catch the front plate, which is what happened here that I just noticed, after trying to understand about reporting the correct vehicle, section.

** further edit
I have gone through a section recommended, and going through each I have noted what I suspect apply's to this, so I don't waste time doing responses that would be wrong, which takes me ages, so if anyone could confirm the notes in the attached pictures it would be a big help.

This post has been edited by Alongstory: Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 21:59
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ostell
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:11
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So, as previously stated, 9 (2) (e) is not there, nor is period of parking, 9 (2) (a)

I didn't look for anything else

No requirement to get front and back

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 08:12
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