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PCN from Parking Eye - Burton Hospital
2blue4u
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:26
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My wife has received multiple PCN's from Parking Eye, she works at the hospital several times a week and has a valid parking permit.

We did receive a letter from Parking Eye, advising my wife to ignore the first PCN. But since this, she is getting at least 2 a week.

My wife tried to appeal directly to Parking Eye, showing them her valid parking permit, but this was rejected without any reason.

Just looking to see what options are open to us, do we just use popla to appeal ?

Kind regards

This post has been edited by 2blue4u: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:26
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post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:26
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ManxRed
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:35
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They must have provided reasons somewhere surely?

What was the 'transgression' listed on the tickets. What exactly did their response say, and did it contain a POPLA code?

It might be worth posting up a scan of one of the tickets and one of the appeal rejection letters. Redact name, address, registration, bar code, reference numbers and POPLA code, but leave in the dates.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:36


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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:42
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Appealing to POPLA can be a fools errand depending on the circumstances. (They often only concern themselves if the charge is 'correctly issued')

ParkingEye work on number plate recognition (rarely boots on the ground) and she needs to check her vehicle registration is in the whitelist and she is parking in the correct area. (At the extreme end the cameras could be 'misconfigured')

PE are extremely litigious and are likely to issue court claims so the issue must be resolved.

QUOTE (2blue4u @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:26) *
...showing them her valid parking permit

A physical permit may well be 'useless'.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Slithy Tove
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 13:58
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IIRC, Burton introduced a parking regime which deliberately entraps people (PE's wonderful system whereby you need to know when you arrived in order to pay the right amount, even though their systems could quite easily tell you). Further, the chief exec was completely unsympathetic to complaints about it.

So don't expect much support from management.
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2blue4u
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:14
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This is what my wife received from PE

The hospital have not been helpful, in fact when she was given her permit, nothing was said or given in writing on where she could or couldn't park.

After speaking with the hospital today, they now said she is not allowed to park in the Breast Care Unit.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:21
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So they HAVE given a reason, it being that the driver failed to pay for parking, presumably either via buying a ticket, or payment by phone, or whatever.

Have you got a photo of the sign in place at the location where the driver parked? So we can read what it says?


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2blue4u
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:29
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:21) *
So they HAVE given a reason, it being that the driver failed to pay for parking, presumably either via buying a ticket, or payment by phone, or whatever.

Have you got a photo of the sign in place at the location where the driver parked? So we can read what it says?


My wife is going tomorrow to take pictures.

I've attached the letter from PE, in which they cancelled the PCN, no reason given, but the only reason can be is that know my wife has a valid parking permit.

This post has been edited by 2blue4u: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:31
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Jlc
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:40
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QUOTE (2blue4u @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:14) *
The hospital have not been helpful, in fact when she was given her permit, nothing was said or given in writing on where she could or couldn't park.

After speaking with the hospital today, they now said she is not allowed to park in the Breast Care Unit.

Are staff supposed to guess then? The permit and the signs may provide some clues.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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2blue4u
post Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 17:33
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:40) *
QUOTE (2blue4u @ Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 16:14) *
The hospital have not been helpful, in fact when she was given her permit, nothing was said or given in writing on where she could or couldn't park.

After speaking with the hospital today, they now said she is not allowed to park in the Breast Care Unit.

Are staff supposed to guess then? The permit and the signs may provide some clues.



I know, it like entrapment.

The first PCN was cancelled, due to having a valid permit. But now my wife has received multiple PCN's for the same parking area, and there has been no communications from the hospital.

My wife did check to make sure the permit wasn't cancelled, so we know it is still valid.

This post has been edited by 2blue4u: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 - 17:34
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2blue4u
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 03:30
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So do we go down the popla route in trying to appeal the PCN?
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ManxRed
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 09:02
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Show us the signs. We can then advise what angles there are to appeal it.


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2blue4u
post Thu, 8 Nov 2018 - 23:04
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I have the picture from the hospital car park, these are all the same signs throughout the parking area's.

I have also attached my wife's parking permit, just to let you know that my wife is based in Derby, both RDH and Burton are now apart of the same trust, so they have added parking permit to my wife's existing RDH permit.


There was no documentation given from the Burton Parking team on where my wife could park, although they have since changed their story.

Cheers

This post has been edited by 2blue4u: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 00:43
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ManxRed
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 09:02
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I can't read the small print at the bottom, but from what I can read the sign says nothing about permit holders being able to park there. To all intents and purposes its a Pay car park only.

When you say that they've changed their story, have they now produced any paperwork or referred to any information which tells you where permit holders can or cannot park?

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 09:02


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The Rookie
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 09:11
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With Manx here, unless she had some indication when she received the permit that she could park there, there is nothing else that indicates she could.

Where private parking is involved the 'RTFM' mantra becomes RTFS(ign).


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2blue4u
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:16
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These signs are on all the car parking areas on site. There is no separate staff car park, everyone uses the same areas as the public to park.

Plus why was the first PCN cancelled by ParkingEye, if my wife didn't have a valid permit to park in that area, there would be no reason to cancel it?!?
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ManxRed
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:31
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So, what advice have the Burton Parking team advised on where she IS allowed to park, and why she can't park where she did?

Are there other permit holders at the hospital? Where do they park?


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2blue4u
post Fri, 9 Nov 2018 - 14:43
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The parking team now said she should park in the main car park or the overflow, but there wasn't any communication given when she was given her permit.

The staff park in the areas where they work, so the breast care team park in the breast unit car park.

My wife works at the breast unit when she is at Burton and parked in that area.


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SchoolRunMum
post Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 18:49
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QUOTE
The hospital have not been helpful, in fact when she was given her permit, nothing was said or given in writing on where she could or couldn't park.

After speaking with the hospital today, they now said she is not allowed to park in the Breast Care Unit.


She is going to have to make a written complaint to the CEO of the NHS Trust, pointing out the NHS Parking Principles and how allowing PE to make their money from penalties only, is in clear breach of that policy, and how not telling staff where they can park, means the NHS Trust is culpable for this and is causing staff huge monetary loss in favour of their notoriously horrendous parking firm, who were named and shamed in Parliament in Feb 2018.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...king-principles

QUOTE
NHS organisations should work with their patients and staff, local authorities and public transport providers to make sure that users can get to the site (and park if necessary) as safely, conveniently and economically as possible.

Charges should be reasonable for the area.

Concessions, including free or reduced charges or caps, should be available for the following groups:

...(including)...staff working shifts that mean public transport cannot be used

Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used. Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable...

Details of charges, concessions and additional charges should be well publicised including at car park entrances, wherever payment is made and inside the hospital. They should also be included on the hospital website and on patient letters and forms, where appropriate.

NHS trusts should publish:

their parking policy

their implementation of the NHS car parking principles
financial information relating to their car parking
summarised complaint information on car parking and actions taken in response


Contracted-out car parking
NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.

NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.

Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, eg ‘income from parking charge notices only’.

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2blue4u
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 02:06
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sat, 10 Nov 2018 - 18:49) *
QUOTE
The hospital have not been helpful, in fact when she was given her permit, nothing was said or given in writing on where she could or couldn't park.

After speaking with the hospital today, they now said she is not allowed to park in the Breast Care Unit.


She is going to have to make a written complaint to the CEO of the NHS Trust, pointing out the NHS Parking Principles and how allowing PE to make their money from penalties only, is in clear breach of that policy, and how not telling staff where they can park, means the NHS Trust is culpable for this and is causing staff huge monetary loss in favour of their notoriously horrendous parking firm, who were named and shamed in Parliament in Feb 2018.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...king-principles

QUOTE
NHS organisations should work with their patients and staff, local authorities and public transport providers to make sure that users can get to the site (and park if necessary) as safely, conveniently and economically as possible.

Charges should be reasonable for the area.

Concessions, including free or reduced charges or caps, should be available for the following groups:

...(including)...staff working shifts that mean public transport cannot be used

Trusts should consider installing ‘pay on exit’ or similar schemes so that drivers pay only for the time that they have used. Additional charges should only be imposed where reasonable...

Details of charges, concessions and additional charges should be well publicised including at car park entrances, wherever payment is made and inside the hospital. They should also be included on the hospital website and on patient letters and forms, where appropriate.

NHS trusts should publish:

their parking policy

their implementation of the NHS car parking principles
financial information relating to their car parking
summarised complaint information on car parking and actions taken in response


Contracted-out car parking
NHS organisations are responsible for the actions of private contractors who run car parks on their behalf.

NHS organisations should act against rogue contractors in line with the relevant codes of practice where applicable.

Contracts should not be let on any basis that incentivises additional charges, eg ‘income from parking charge notices only’.



Thanks for this, my wife and her colleagues will be writing to the Helen Scott-South first thing on Monday.

In the mean time, do we still need to appeal via popla to get PE off our backs?
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 11 Nov 2018 - 22:44
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I would plan to do that but POPLA codes last 30 days and it's best to try to get a landowner cancellation FIRST.

If POPLA has been started, PE might refuse to cancel, we've seen that happen before even when a landowner wants a PCN cancelled. whereas if POPLA has not been started, PE often cancel very easily when a landowner wants them to.

I would suggest your wife & colleagues visibly cc you local MP who covers the Hospital constituency on Monday, too, and point out that (as well as operating in breach of Government policy at this site) ParkingEye were named & shamed in Parliament in February, and there is another reading of the Parking Bill coming up this month and these hounded nurses need to know their MP is against this ''outrageous scam'' (MPs own words from Feb) and whether he/she will write to Helen Scott-South to support your complaints:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5787731

watch the video to understand the Bill, and to see ParkingEye named and shamed:

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f038...918?in=12:49:41

Be robust with the complaints, not written as an appeal. More like 'are you aware your contract with ParkingEye breaches the Government Policy for NHS Car Parks?' (then show the bits I put in bold) and 'are you aware ParkingEye (and unacceptable Hospital parking regimes like this one) were named & shamed in Parliament in February 2018 where MPs were unanimous on condemning this operation as an ''outrageous scam'' and that there is a further reading of the Parking Bill due this month...'

Then ask what the CEO is doing to protect staff and patients from the horrendous threat posed to their peace of mind, mental health and finances at a time when people are struggling to make ends meet, by ParkingEye who the NHS Trust appears to have granted carte blanche to sue patients, visitors and staff alike without referral to the Trust for approval first?

Then put in your own words how that makes NHS employees feel...

etc.



And sit on the POPLA appeal until day 30 and then do that if you have to (make sure the colleagues know NOT to drop the ball of POPLA, it IS needed, as a chance to win and to stop them suing.
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