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TRO and Bus Lanes legalities
plonka
post Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 16:00
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I would appreciate advice or knowledge of legalities.

I have a 10 seater vehicle, which can go into any bus lane (so long as it doesn't say local). I have been having a fight with my local council about this and they have eventually accepted that the legislation http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/made clearly defines a bus as follows:-
“a motor vehicle which is constructed or adapted to carry more than eight seated passengers in addition to the driver.”

Also
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/31...ulation/23/made
which clearly states:-
“Bus lane” in the signs referred to in paragraph
(1) means a traffic lane reserved for—
(a)motor vehicles constructed or adapted to carry more than 8 passengers (exclusive of the driver);

In other words, the sign of a "BUS" on a bus lane automatically allows (so long as it doesn't say "local") any vehicle above 8+ passenger seats, or 9 passenger+1 driver, which is a minimum of 10 seats.


My question is as follows. The current TRO of the BUS LANE is one that is based on one created in 1997, prior to the legislation clarifying about the signage which can be found HERE , therefore in the TRO where it states who can use the Bus Lane, "a school bus. a stage carriage. a contract carriage or a works bus, any other vehicle constructed or adapted to carry 12 or more passengers", which would mean that a sign of a normal BUS which allows 8 or more passengers would mean that the signage is inadequate, as it is not in-line with their own TRO.

Would that invalidate the Bus Lane altogether?

This post has been edited by plonka: Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:36
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plonka
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 15:51
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I wasn't saying that!

What I was trying to bring across was that the current TRO is valid, but not as a Bus Lane TRO. Why would it be changed to a bus lane TRO when its perfect the way it is? It can be properly implemented as a TRO, not a current Bus Lane

If there was bus lanes available to the Council at time of making the TRO, I can understand the logic to say that the Bus Lane legislation would "still" apply, however to embed something into something that wasnt there, and the TRO is still status quo, wouldn't make sense to me.

The use of "oh well just a mistake" would go into effect I imagine if the purpose of the TRO when created wouldn't have done the job it intended to.

I am saying since its a TRO not a Bus Lane TRO, its the wrong contravention on the PCN and wrong signage.
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southpaw82
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:27
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QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:51) *
TRO is valid, but not as a Bus Lane TRO.

I am saying since its a TRO not a Bus Lane TRO

Still don’t understand what you mean by this. A TRO is a TRO.


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Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed.
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plonka
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:32
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QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:27) *
Still don’t understand what you mean by this. A TRO is a TRO.

There are different penalties. One for a standard contravention and one particular for Bus lane contravention, both created by a TRO.
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DancingDad
post Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:01
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QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:32) *
QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:27) *
Still don’t understand what you mean by this. A TRO is a TRO.

There are different penalties. One for a standard contravention and one particular for Bus lane contravention, both created by a TRO.


But penalties do not come from the TRO, they are set by the relevant legislation and sec of state (outside London)

QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:04) *
This amendment might make things clearer

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/TRO/Bury/BC03B.pdf


May as well say it before Plonka….. but it doesn't include the word bus or amend the definitions within the original rolleyes.gif


Does liberally sprinkle reserved bus lane throughout.
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Posts in this topic
- plonka   TRO and Bus Lanes legalities   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 16:00
- - Wretched Rectum   From what I gather, as Bury is outside London the ...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:07
|- - PASTMYBEST   QUOTE (Wretched Rectum @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 ...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:16
- - DancingDad   TSRGD 2016 is the ruling interpretation re bus lan...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17:12
- - plonka   Thanks for the responses. QUOTE (Wretched Rectum ...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 18:39
|- - The Rookie   QUOTE (plonka @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 21:32
- - PASTMYBEST   Post up a GSV of the bus lane in question   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 19:31
- - plonka   https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5225076,-...3312...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 20:37
- - DancingDad   So a standard 654 style bus lane sign. (then) Now ...   Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 21:28
|- - PASTMYBEST   QUOTE (DancingDad @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 2...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 09:46
|- - plonka   QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 12:57
|- - The Rookie   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:07
|- - plonka   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:13
|- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:15
||- - plonka   QUOTE (DancingDad @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:53
||- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 15...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 15:16
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 21:35
- - PASTMYBEST   Post up the PCN   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:11
- - plonka   See attachment. I have appealed it and won, howe...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:40
- - The Rookie   I think you are wrong to be honest. This order by ...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:54
|- - plonka   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 13:59
- - The Rookie   I don't think it is, the fact the Bury has a b...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:03
|- - plonka   QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:07
- - PASTMYBEST   there is a specific PCN for bus lanes. The one you...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 14:33
- - plonka   Fair points there. If it would have said Bus, then...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 15:44
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 16...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 17:19
||- - plonka   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 1...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:33
||- - peterguk   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:49
|||- - plonka   QUOTE (peterguk @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 23:54
||- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:08
|||- - plonka   QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 1...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 09:47
||- - southpaw82   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 00...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:18
||- - DancingDad   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 1...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 12:25
|- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 16...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 21:14
- - notmeatloaf   Local govt ombudsman tend to be interested in reso...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 20:43
- - PASTMYBEST   QUOTE (plonka @ Tue, 10 Jul 2018 - 17...   Wed, 11 Jul 2018 - 20:59
- - DancingDad   It is a lane created for school buses, works buses...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 11:37
|- - plonka   QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 1...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 13:10
|- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 14...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 13:23
|- - plonka   QUOTE (DancingDad @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 1...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 14:06
|- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 15...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 15:19
- - plonka   I wasn't saying that! What I was trying t...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 15:51
|- - southpaw82   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:27
|- - plonka   QUOTE (southpaw82 @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 1...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:32
|- - DancingDad   QUOTE (plonka @ Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 17:01
- - PASTMYBEST   This amendment might make things clearer https://...   Thu, 12 Jul 2018 - 16:04


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