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PCN in Royal Parks - are they Council or Private, Are NSL in Regents Park a Council or a Private body?
silvercandles77
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:43
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Hi all,

A month or so ago, I parked in Regents Park. I paid and displayed and stuck the voucher in my windscreen.

When I came back, I had a PCN. My voucher had come unstuck and was on the floor.

I wrote to NSL explaining the above and providing picture evidence. (the tickets are personalised to your vehicle registration)

They rejected my appeal. I wrote again. They rejected my appeal again (the letter I received is below)

Now they are threatening to send my details to an enforcement agency.

I've written back telling that I disagree with their opinion, and that I will view any enforcement action as harrassment, and requesting they reconsider.

The question is: is this the right strategy? It is the right thing to do for privately issued parking tickets - but I can't figure out of NSL / Royal Parks is council or private. My assumption is that if they were council run there'd be a right to an appeal to an independent adjudicator.

Any advice warmly welcomed.

Thanks


M





cid:image004.jpg@01CF178F.BEC5A5E0


















18th September 2018




Dear Mr MXXXXa,

Ticket Number RK10415253
Issued on 28/08/2018
Vehicle Registration WXXXXHP
Location Outer Circle

Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the above Excess Charge Notice (ECN).

The circumstances relating to the service of the ECN were fully investigated upon receipt of your previous correspondence and a full response provided.

Whilst I have re-investigated the points that you have raised, as previously advised I cannot find any grounds for cancellation of the charge.

If payment is not received we shall assume that you wish to pursue the matter and shall arrange for a Notice to Owner to be sent to the registered keeper of the vehicle so that formal representations can be made.

Please be advised, there is no independent parking adjudicator to make an appeal to. The Notice to Owner is your last right to appeal.

Failure to make payment or submit a formal representation at Notice to Owner stage will result in the progression of the ECN resulting in the debt being passed to Task Enforcement Ltd to recover the outstanding balance on behalf of Royal Parks. Once the debt has been passed to Task Enforcement Ltd, we will not be able to accept any payments. You will need to contact them directly.

I would remind you, should you decide to take this course of action, upon expiry of any discount period you will forfeit the right to pay the ECN at the lower rate and the full charge will be due.

If you are not the registered keeper of the vehicle e.g. the vehicle is a company/lease hire vehicle, I recommend you advise the keeper that a Notice to Owner will be issued.


Yours sincerely,

Parking Services
For and on behalf of NSL
and The Royal Parks

This post has been edited by silvercandles77: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:44
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post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:43
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PASTMYBEST
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 15:53
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Post the docs


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Mad Mick V
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:05
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I thought Royal Parks issued excess charge notices not PCNs.
Perhaps our good friends NSL have got it wrong?

Mick
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cp8759
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 19:14
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Their response says it's an ECN. Their understanding of the process is however flawed, as the NtO they would issue has no statutory backing at all. However the Royal Parks could prosecute you in the magistrates court if you don't pay, as failure to pay an ECN is a criminal offence. There is no tribunal, and you would have no defence, so my advice would be to just pay.

To answer your original query, NSL are agents of the Royal Parks, which is a public authority.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 19:19


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silvercandles77
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 07:55
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QUOTE (cp8759 @ Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 20:14) *
Their response says it's an ECN. Their understanding of the process is however flawed, as the NtO they would issue has no statutory backing at all. However the Royal Parks could prosecute you in the magistrates court if you don't pay, as failure to pay an ECN is a criminal offence. There is no tribunal, and you would have no defence, so my advice would be to just pay.

To answer your original query, NSL are agents of the Royal Parks, which is a public authority.



What is an ECN?



So councils can just get past all this PCN appeal stuff by issuing an ECN directly?

What a bunch of sh*tbags.


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silvercandles77
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 08:27
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Here are the original ticket and the ECN


Attached Image


Attached Image



Attached thumbnail(s)
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peterguk
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 08:32
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QUOTE (silvercandles77 @ Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 08:55) *
What is an ECN?

http://www.knowyourparkingrights.org/News/...arking-ticket#6
You should follow the process as outlined on the ticket received and decide whether to accept the charge or appeal. A discount may apply if you pay or appeal the ECN within a certain number of days. If you decide to appeal, contact the local authority or organisation that issued the ECN. There is no defined procedure, it is at the organisations discretion as to within how many days you should appeal.

To satisfy audit requirements, and to ensure that these are considered consistently, all appeals must be made in writing. Details of whether the appeal can be submitted by post, email or online, should be on the ECN.

Upon receipt of your appeal the organisation will review the circumstances of your challenge against the evidence provided and that obtained when the ECN was issued. The organisation will then decide whether to approve your appeal and will let you know the outcome in writing (by letter or email).

If the organisation rejects your appeal and you would still like to dispute the ECN, the local authority can pursue you for payment through the relevant local courts, such as a Magistrates’ or Sheriffs’ Court where you can further dispute the ECN. The court appearance is for the registered keeper of the vehicle unless they provide evidence of transfer of liability to another party (for example the driver).



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hcandersen
post Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 08:39
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So you sent them a copy of your ticket which, because it included details of your registration, showed that you had paid the parking charge and that the ECN was issued when this was still valid, yes?

And you provided this as part of a written submissions?

Let’s see them please.
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silvercandles77
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 02:26
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Attached Image


Here you go - here's the pay & display ticket for the ECN in question.


M

Here's the email I sent them on August 28.

Hi

My vehicle WXXX VHP received a PCN this morning.

As you can see, I did pay for parking (see attached). I stuck the pay and display ticket on the windscreen before departing the car, but found it on the footwell when I returned.

(See attached, mistakenly omitted from my first email)


Please cancel the PCN as I had paid and displayed.

Many thanks

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hcandersen
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 08:05
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Does the ticket refer to ‘UHP’ as reg but the ECN ‘VHP’?

As I understand it, the discount is no longer on offer, yes?

If so and subject to the above, then why not wait for the mystical NTO and this time submit more punchy reps focussing on the fact that you paid and that the ticket was valid when the ECN was issued.
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Mad Mick V
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 08:07
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OP----you are in for the full amount because NSL have not re-offered the discount. I would continue and await the NTO (which as cp8759 states is not a step mentioned in the legislation).

Make sure that any further response from yourself has proof of postage or screen shots. The last thing we want is the case ending up in the Mags Court with lots more to pay. There is no recourse to adjudication with a ECN so you have to keep to deadlines and keep tabs on everything.

Mick

This post has been edited by Mad Mick V: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 08:12
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hcandersen
post Thu, 20 Sep 2018 - 09:57
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We appear to have two different reg numbers: VHP and UHP.

Who’s correct, I wonder?

If the OP, then the ECN’s invalid, if NSL then this weakens to OP’s case.
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silvercandles77
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 16:22
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Hi

The ticket is VHP - it's just the font that the machine uses moves it to U.

So, I should wait to receive the Notice to Owner.

And then reply again in writing.

And then the next step is to go to Court?

Meanwhile, I have written to my MP to complain about this sneaky way of collecting revenue via ECN instead of PCN, and the shitty lack of an appeals process.


M
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bama
post Sun, 23 Sep 2018 - 19:25
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QUOTE
it's just the font that the machine uses moves it to U.


err, what ? ? ?


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Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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silvercandles77
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 20:07
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The Pay and Display machine prints 'V' as something that looks like 'U'.


So - does anyone have any advice?
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cp8759
post Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 21:00
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QUOTE (silvercandles77 @ Wed, 26 Sep 2018 - 21:07) *
The Pay and Display machine prints 'V' as something that looks like 'U'.


So - does anyone have any advice?

I would just pay it now, you have no defence and failure to pay within the deadline is a crime.


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