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supermono
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:30
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Hi all,

I have sight of an invoice for £80 (£40) for contractual parking somewhere close to student accommodation in Nottingham University. It clearly states:

"In accordance with the signage displaying the contractual terms of use for this parking facility, a charge of £80 is now payable by the driver, due to the condition(s) arising as detailed above"

Detailed above "Issue Reason: No Permit"

Now, I wasn't the driver of the car and clearly it states that the driver is due to pay. Does this mean the new law regarding registered keeper isn't applicable?

There are many entrances to the area in question which is a large residential private development. Here's one example: https://www.google.com/maps/@52.9488954,-1....3312!8i6656

Please could you advise the correct way to proceed, because in my view there is inadequate signage plus the driver of the car is being invoiced.

Thanks in advance...


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post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:30
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Jlc
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:45
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It's always the driver's alleged contract. They are able to pursue the keeper if they have complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act. Is there no reference? (Sometimes PPC's do issue non-PoFA charged)

DE are quite litigious so need to be sure.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ostell
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 12:54
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Let's see the redacted notice. Leave dates
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supermono
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 19:06
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Hi, thanks, here's the images...

Top

Bottom




This post has been edited by supermono: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 19:10
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Umkomaas
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 19:54
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QUOTE
Now, I wasn't the driver of the car and clearly it states that the driver is due to pay. Does this mean the new law regarding registered keeper isn't applicable?

Depends if DE meet the strict requirements of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. You'll need to wait for their formal Notice to Keeper to determine this.

Advice for IPC operators is to await the arrival of the NtK (for a windscreen ticket) which should arrive with you between 29 and 56 days after the parking event as a basic minimum to hold the RK liable (and there'll be other requirements in terms of what else the NtK says). So make sure you log the precise date of arrival of the NtK - get proof if possible (unopened letter held against a device showing a precise date/copy of the day's newspaper for example). Could prove helpful if they fail to meet the deadline.
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ostell
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:24
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So this was the notice to driver. Suggestion is that the registered keeper appeals the ticket so that it arrives on day 26.and they are tempted to save £2.50 and not contact the DVLA for the keeper details or not send a Notice to Keeper and therefore there can be no keeper liability
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:35
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Is it here?

A brand new parking regime - typical DE private parking cash cow site started just one week ago then, with what they describe as 'temporary signs'? How dare they inflict DE on people, flipping heck what is the matter with the Park Estate Committee, can they not research?

http://www.thenottinghamparkestateltd.co.uk/

QUOTE
Nottingham Park Estate Ltd

28.09.18 - Parking Enforcement
Temporary signs are being installed today to enable the new parking enforcement company to start managing parking within The Park next week. These signs will be replaced with permanent signage in the coming months. The wardens will be on The Estate seven days a week at varying times.


Wardens...? DE do not have anyone who could be described as 'warding' cars or property. These firms are parasites, money-grabbers.

The FAQS are interesting and suggest they think they can issue 'PENALTY NOTICES' and also say people CAN park...

QUOTE
Am I entitled to park my car in the Park?

If you reside in the Park you are generally entitled to a residents’ parking permit (restrictions apply). Visitors who are genuinely visiting a Park resident may also park here for a short time. Please see Parking Section for details.

http://www.thenottinghamparkestateltd.co.u...and_Access.html


If I have a residents' parking permit , can I park anywhere in the Park?

No, there are restrictions. You can only park on the section of road "immediately abutting" (i.e alongside) your property where there are no double blue lines or double yellow lines. If there isn't any space outside of your property then you are permitted to park neary, within a reasonable distance. "Free" parking for any permit holder is also available on Ogle Drive, and on Park Valley, north of the Park Steps (depending on space available, of course).


How can I get through the bollards on Peveril Drive?

The bollards operate on Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR). When you register your vehicle for a parking permit, you will also be registered for ANPR. The bollards are present to reduce traffic cutting through the Estate.


What can I do if I see someone parking their car here when they don’t have a permit, aren’t a legitimate visitor, etc?

Please report it to the Estate Office who will ensure the wardens issue a parking penalty notice.



Even more interesting:

http://www.thenottinghamparkestateltd.co.u...and_Access.html

QUOTE
Parking and Access

The NPEL monitors the state of the various roads, considers priorities in resurfacing, determines where speed ramps should be installed and generally oversees representations and complaints made by residents.

Traffic Regulations are made and issued under Section 14 (2) (b) of the Park Estate Act - please see the NPEL Structure page.

The last Regulations review and consultation was carried out by the Board in 2014 and 2015. Members were consulted (via meetings, a survey, and an online forum) on proposed new Parking Regulations, to reduce parking congestion and unauthorised parking in The Park. Many Members felt that most parking issues would be solved by more enforcement of the current regulations, and following increased NPEL spend in this area (wardens carrying out more patrols for longer periods), the parking issues have indeed decreased. Patrols cover all roads in The Park but there is more focus on "hotspot" areas like Park Valley, Park Terrace, Western Terrace.


Enforcement

​The roads within the Park are patrolled daily, with particular focus on the perimeter roads (such as Newcastle Drive, Park Valley, North Road, Huntingdon Drive) that suffer from non-Park residents attempting to park illegally. Parking Charge Notices (Fixed Penalties) are issued to those infringing the Regulations and are legally enforceable. Residents who wish to report a vehicle parked illegally should contact the Estate Office.

CCTV cameras monitor activity at the rising bollards on Peveril Drive, and the NPEL takes legal action against motorists who damage the bollards.



What do we think, under 'STATUTORY CONTROL' - due to the fact the regulations fall under an Act?

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukla/1990/14...19900014_en.pdf

http://www.thenottinghamparkestateltd.co.u...osting_BH_2.pdf

QUOTE
THE NOTTINGHAM PARK ESTATE REGULATIONS 2009
All estate roads in the Nottingham Park Estate are privately owned by The Nottingham Park Estate Limited (“the Company”)
and are not highways maintainable at public expense. Parking is reserved for residents and bona-fide visitors only.

The Company has issued these Regulations pursuant to section 14(2)(b) of the Nottingham Park Estate Act 1990.


Was the car parked in a bay?

Was the car parked on a single blue line?

Was the car parked on double blue lines (yes really...that's what that Act talks about - prohibition on parking on double blues!).

The registered keeper of the car should send an 'appeal' and ask how DE reckon they can issue 'fixed penalties' on land covered by statute, who they think is liable and why and under which applicable law, and to show images of which 'temporary signs' they allege were displayed to ensure that what is clearly a brand new parking regime was drawn to the clear attention of drivers familiar with the area before the parking enforcement changed (starting last week, according to the NPEL website).


Can I just warn you, very clearly -

AVOID THAT ARE LIKE THE PLAGUE AND TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS NEVER TO PARK THERE - DE OFFER NO INDEPENDENT APPEAL (IPC FIRM).

IF ANYONE HAS A PERMIT FOR THERE, STICK IT TO THE DASHBOARD WITH BLUTACK - NO LETTING *SOMEONE* DISLODGE IT. NO FLIMSY BITS OF PAPER PROVE TO SLIPPING OFF THE DASHBOARD, NOT NOW THIS LOT ARE INFESTING THE SITE.

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Umkomaas
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:37
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QUOTE (ostell @ Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:24) *
So this was the notice to driver. Suggestion is that the registered keeper appeals the ticket so that it arrives on day 26.and they are tempted to save £2.50 and not contact the DVLA for the keeper details or not send a Notice to Keeper and therefore there can be no keeper liability

DE are IPC operators, offering only a 21-day initial appeal window. Getting a (deficient) NtK seems a better option with IPC operators, as the strategy for a BPA operator 26-day appeal 'trap' will only work with POPLA. No chance of it (legitimately) working with the IAS.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:38
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Just to add to the advice to appeal (not yet) - shortly before the appeals deadline:

NEVER BLAB ABOUT WHO THE DRIVER WAS, NO RUSHING TERRIBLE APPEALS - SPREAD THE WORD.

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 - 20:39
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supermono
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 09:33
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Hi all, thanks for the advice so far. Seems an appeal is in order then. Regarding the driver etc, I was passed this ticket and I wasn't driving, I'm also not the registered keeper.

Is it fine for me to raise the appeal? And what should my basis of appeal be? Or should the registered keeper deal with that? Perhaps I should write in the capacity of appointed agent of the registered keeper?

Thanks
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ManxRed
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 10:22
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QUOTE (supermono @ Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 10:33) *
Hi all, thanks for the advice so far. Seems an appeal is in order then. Regarding the driver etc, I was passed this ticket and I wasn't driving, I'm also not the registered keeper.

Is it fine for me to raise the appeal? And what should my basis of appeal be? Or should the registered keeper deal with that? Perhaps I should write in the capacity of appointed agent of the registered keeper?

Thanks


The correspondence should be from the Registered Keeper, or the Keeper, and state as much on the correspondence.

You can obviously assist in the wording of the appeals/letters etc. but you will get into all sorts of problems if you appeal as a random third party, and they might not even accept anything you submit.


--------------------
Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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supermono
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 15:11
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ok, thanks for that. And what should the registered keeper reply in the appeal? I believe it was parked within this area and I believe a permit may not have been on display.
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ostell
post Fri, 26 Oct 2018 - 07:54
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So what did the nearest sign say about parking andpermits? Something like permit holders only?
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