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Private residential parking ticket
Jen_Jen1985
post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:35
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Hi, Im looking for some advice on behalf of a friend.

They were visiting a friend and parked in the resident underground car park. The driver parked in a disabled bay displaying a blue badge but has received a ticket as they weren't displaying a resident permit.
Whats the best way to deal with it?
The keeper has been told her to ignore as another friend has had 3 tickets and they've never been chased for them, I said I don't think you should really ignore as I know the law changed a few years back but wanted to check with people who know more about these things than I do.

Thanks for any help you can offer and if more information is needed then let me know and I'll get the info from my friend.

This post has been edited by Jen_Jen1985: Tue, 25 Sep 2018 - 18:19
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post Mon, 24 Sep 2018 - 19:35
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ostell
post Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 08:11
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Can you keep your arguments for the flamepit please.

Bumble, can you get the lease and see what it says about visitor parking, it may just provide a help.

The landowner should be able to tell P4Parking to cancel the charge, they will be the people that contracted P4Parking, not go through an appeal which they will be disinclined to accept. Get back on to the landowner.

In parallel with harassing the landowner you continue with the appeal to P4Parking on the lines of:

Sirs,

I am the keeper of vehicle VRM xxxxx and have been handed the PCN No. xxxx which was left on the windscreen.

There can be bo charge payable for this as the signs were not very clear and failed to make a contract with the driver at the time. As one of the occupants of the car is disabled a valid Blue Badge was displayed at the time. Your operator should have been aware of this and made allowances for the disability.

Yours

Keeper name
Keeper address


Send this off so that it is received on, or just before, day 26 of the parking. The idea is that the company try to save £2.50 by not applying to the DVLA for the keepers details. They are required to send a Notice to keeper between day 28 and 56. They may not send a notice to keeper within the required time or may not contact the DVLA. In either case you win. Try and make the keepers address slightly different to the address on the V5 registration document but not too different in that any response cannot be delivered. A misspell of a name, foe example, Greene instead of Green. Just enough that you know they haven't contacted the DVLA.
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Bumble62
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 14:33
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Thank you for your response ostell, and for the clarity of it. The ticket was issued on 24th September, So if I count the day after that as day 1 (or is the day it was issued day 1? It was issued at 18:36), then I guess I am on day 23 and day 26 will be Saturday 20th October. Should I send it on Friday?

I'm confused, as in another response, someone mentioned not saying anything about having a blue badge, yet you indicate that I should. I was thinking it should be mentioned, as although there was no residents or visitors parking permit on the vehicle, it did have my blue badge on it because it was parked in an un-allocated, but clearly marked, disabled bay, which was close to the lift and which I could just about manage to get to.

My daughter tells me that in the lease, no parking bays had been allocated as the whole area was not parking controlled when she took the property over after it had been built. I had to contact P4P
to buy a parking permit, and they told me that I could park there for 24 hours, but couldn't return within 48 hours, which I thought was rather daft. What if I was picking my grandchildren up from school for a few days in a row? I queried this with the land owner, and they said they had never heard of that. My daughter also told me that with regards to the parking permits, that when they were first introduced, that all the residents were up in arms over some of the restrictions, and because of that, they reviewed them, as the residents had a valid argument. The land owner understands that I can't be expected to have to park totally off site, and is issuing the parking permit, but I still have this ticket to get sorted. They say they won't intervene and that I have to appeal it. I've not slept properly since getting it.

Thank you again
Bumble62


QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 15 Oct 2018 - 09:11) *
Can you keep your arguments for the flamepit please.

Bumble, can you get the lease and see what it says about visitor parking, it may just provide a help.

The landowner should be able to tell P4Parking to cancel the charge, they will be the people that contracted P4Parking, not go through an appeal which they will be disinclined to accept. Get back on to the landowner.

In parallel with harassing the landowner you continue with the appeal to P4Parking on the lines of:

Sirs,

I am the keeper of vehicle VRM xxxxx and have been handed the PCN No. xxxx which was left on the windscreen.

There can be bo charge payable for this as the signs were not very clear and failed to make a contract with the driver at the time. As one of the occupants of the car is disabled a valid Blue Badge was displayed at the time. Your operator should have been aware of this and made allowances for the disability.

Yours

Keeper name
Keeper address


Send this off so that it is received on, or just before, day 26 of the parking. The idea is that the company try to save £2.50 by not applying to the DVLA for the keepers details. They are required to send a Notice to keeper between day 28 and 56. They may not send a notice to keeper within the required time or may not contact the DVLA. In either case you win. Try and make the keepers address slightly different to the address on the V5 registration document but not too different in that any response cannot be delivered. A misspell of a name, foe example, Greene instead of Green. Just enough that you know they haven't contacted the DVLA.



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ostell
post Wed, 17 Oct 2018 - 22:21
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Put in the post on the Thurday and get a free certificate of posting from any Post Office
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SchoolRunMum
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 00:01
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QUOTE
I'm confused, as in another response, someone mentioned not saying anything about having a blue badge, yet you indicate that I should.

There is a huge difference between these careful words:

QUOTE
one of the occupants of the car is disabled a valid Blue Badge was displayed at the time.


...compared to wanting to add your own words to a template appeal that give away who parked the car, which is why I warned:

QUOTE
NO SAYING WHO WAS DRIVING IN THE APPEAL - NO ADDING ANY WORDS ABOUT BLUE BADGES.


I said that to stop you adding words like this:

QUOTE
I was thinking it should be mentioned, as although there was no residents or visitors parking permit on the vehicle, it did have my blue badge on it because it was parked in an un-allocated, but clearly marked, disabled bay, which was close to the lift and which I could just about manage to get to.

and they told me that I could park there for 24 hours, but couldn't return within 48 hours, which I thought was rather daft. What if I was picking my grandchildren up from school for a few days in a row? I queried this with the land owner, and they said they had never heard of that. My daughter also told me that with regards to the parking permits, that when they were first introduced, that all the residents were up in arms over some of the restrictions, and because of that, they reviewed them, as the residents had a valid argument. The land owner understands that I can't be expected to have to park totally off site,


It's safe now ostell has written an appeal for you to send as the keeper, albeit the MSE NEWBIES thread appeal would have the same effect and get a POPLA code without giving away the driver's identity.

Maybe a misunderstanding but why is there talk of ruining the 26 day tactic by posting the appeal to arrive too late, when the tactic is the parking firm must actually have it on day 26? The PCN clearly offers an online appeals page - so use that on Friday - just don't choose 'driver'...
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Bumble62
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 12:40
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Thank you, I understand a bit better now about the way of wording so as not to disclose who was driving. Do they actually ask who was driving on the form? Easier for me to take in if others can keep the wording simple without the use of too many acronyms which totally throw me. Sorry if that makes me sound dumb. It's just the way my brain works.

Am going to use the online form and do it tomorrow. Should I leave it until the afternoon so they don't have too long to deal with it before the weekend?

Ostell, I'm not sticking up for P4P but can you explain on what grounds the 'signs were not very clear' please. There are several of them on site, even if (to me) they are very confusing and give too many do's, don'ts and instructions for me to understand without getting all stressed out and worked up. So much so that I give up even trying to understand them. Genuine question there, not me having a dig at you smile.gif

Many thanks for the help.
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cabbyman
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 13:06
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That is why they are not clear; you can't understand them. How would someone of a lesser calibre than you be expected to understand them?

There is no benefit in leaving it until late, IMHO. You need to leave them with time to look at the appeal and rub their hands thinking they can save themselves the cost of the DVLA application. Given the possibility of being forced down a particular route online and inadvertently admitting the driver, I agree with Ostell that you should post it today, with a certificate of posting from the post office; NOT signed for.


--------------------
Cabbyman 10 PPCs 0
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Bumble62
post Thu, 18 Oct 2018 - 19:43
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So other than filling in any boxes on the website form this is all I put yes?

I'm afraid it's too late to post it royal mail now, so it will have to go using the online form. Am I right in thinking they don't work on weekends (in the office anyway, their wardens obviously do as it was a Sunday evening when the ticket was issued.


Sirs,

I am the keeper of vehicle VRM xxxxx and have been handed the PCN No. xxxx which was left on the windscreen.

There can be bo charge payable for this as the signs were not very clear and failed to make a contract with the driver at the time. As one of the occupants of the car is disabled a valid Blue Badge was displayed at the time. Your operator should have been aware of this and made allowances for the disability.

Yours

Keeper name
Keeper address
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ostell
post Yesterday, 07:16
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Take care with filling in the boxes, they will default to driver so make sure it is keeper and check again before you hit send. And before you hit send make sure to take a screen print.
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Bumble62
post Yesterday, 10:34
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Thank you everyone who has helped me so far. I've filled in the online form, kept a screenshot of every page of the form (including three separate ones to cover the whole of the 'appeal' box. Checked that it only said 'Keeper' and not driver, and only changed the bits to fill in the relevant VRN, ticket number, keeper and address. I didn't put my phone number on there.

So may I ask what happens next please? I do appreciate that there have been several other cases that are logged on the forum, but there are so many with different circumstances that I can't process so much information and it all becomes a blur to me. I'd really appreciate it if someone can just tell me in simple straight terms please.

Thank you all again.

Bumble
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SchoolRunMum
post Yesterday, 12:30
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P4Parking are in the BPA so when they inevitably reject the appeal (PPC scammers pretty much always do) they will send you a POPLA code.

So while you are waiting, read any POPLA threads to see how that stage appeal differs hugely. On MSE the NEWBIES thread has standard long POPLA template appeal points in the third post.
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Bumble62
post Today, 09:01
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Thanks SchoolRunMum, I'll check those out.

This is all it says about vehicles in the lease. It doesn't mention anything about permits, although the tenants and owners must have had letters when their own permits were issued earlier this year.


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