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HADECS3 camera on M6 and other motorways
MB69
post Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 20:16
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Hello

Can someone please explain how the cameras work and how a single camera can monitor multiple lanes?

From my understanding, unlike Lti20 where it is laser based and it can be directed, the HADECS are radar based? so how does it know if more than one vehicle is present in its view, which one has broken the speed limit ? Or is it down to the operator to then look at the markings and work out?

Also, can someone provide a link to me where I can see the latest location of the cameras on M6 please?

Thanks in advance.

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post Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 20:16
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peterguk
post Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 20:48
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Try Google. It's a really cool website that searches the interweb for you.

For instance, if you Google "Hadecs3", this comes back:

https://www.speedcamerasuk.com/hadecs-3.htm


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MB69
post Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 22:50
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Hi Peterguk

Thank you for your link. i had used google and had seen that website, however it doesn't say exactly how it works and ...

What is going to happen if someone contests the variable speed being displayed on the gantry? How can the force prove that the camera was working ?

Is there an image being recorded of the sign before the gantry that is time stamped to prove that the gantry was working and displaying correct speed? or is it that the poor motorist then would have to prove that the sign wasn't working which you can't unless you have a dash cam, but again you wouldn't know about the offence until 14days later which is then too late to do anything about it!



This post has been edited by MB69: Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 23:01
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JC Denton
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 10:19
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Before you get to a HADECS3 camera, you will notice about 50m or so before the gantry, there is a pole in the verge with what looks like 3 CCTV cameras on it, all pointing towards the speed signs. This I believe is how the police confirm the speed limit that's in place at the time the camera is activated.

JC
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 10:45
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Yes, auxiliary camera's snap the signs for the avoidance of doubt.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 11:13
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perfect. So police will be able to provide the snap of the speed limit from the camera as part of a disclosure?

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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 13:05
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QUOTE (MB69 @ Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 11:13) *
perfect. So police will be able to provide the snap of the speed limit from the camera as part of a disclosure?

If it's HADECS3 then there could be an auxiliary shot.

If it's HADECS2 then the speed limit is via log.

This sounds like in relation to a case - perhaps post in the main forum?

QUOTE (MB69 @ Sun, 8 Jan 2017 - 20:16) *
so how does it know if more than one vehicle is present in its view, which one has broken the speed limit ? Or is it down to the operator to then look at the markings and work out?

HADECS2 work by multiple cameras (one per lane) - and secondary corroboration lines. HADECS3 identifies the vehicle - have a look at this thread.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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sgtdixie
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 14:42
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QUOTE (MB69 @ Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 11:13) *
perfect. So police will be able to provide the snap of the speed limit from the camera as part of a disclosure?

Once you plead not guilty.
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 15:02
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Perfect. That link to the old thread is really good. Thanks.

Will have to wait until I get my summons and then will start a new thread on the other section.

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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 17:17
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Out of interest - what's the allegation? Has it gone to court automatically or did you 'reject' any offer?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 18:19
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Got the NIP. Returned with my details. Then asked for the case to be dealt with by court.

Issue I had : It was apparently taken at past 11pm, and apprently the speed limit was 50mph. Now I don't recall seeing ANY speed limit signs, or any traffic whatsoever on that stretch of the road. Why it was set to 50mph ( if indeed it was 50mph) is beyond me. This was variable speed limits and not average speed. I was clocked at 61mph.
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sgtdixie
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 18:34
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Do you know why on a clear motorway you were only doing 61 mph?
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 20:28
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yes, speed limit is 70mph, according to my speedo I was doing 65, but that is out by about 3mph.

i also have a car which is very thirsty and I have to use it for work but don't get paid for using my own car. I have been doing trials and it seems when I am in 6th gear, around 60-65mph, this is where I get the most out of my mpg. drive at 65 and put the cruise control on and drive.

However I do get paid OT and huge amount of it. So no need for me to get to places or back home quicker and use more fuel!



This post has been edited by MB69: Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 20:31
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 20:35
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Did you not ask for a photo?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 20:43
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Well, I did to help me identify the driver. But none was provided and I was told as an owner, it is my responsibility to know who the driver was. I was then sent a reminder 7 days prior to the 28days, photo was sent to me which shows a very small image of my car in lane3 with another further car in lane2 a bit ahead of me. It is very dark and you can just about make out my car as it is a dark car. The only thing standing out is the number plate. I was then told I had a further 14days to let them know the driver or I could possibly be charged with failure to furnish.

There where 2 of us in the car, but I have sent back and nominated myself and then I was given the CoFP/SAC course. However I have rejected that and have asked for court hearing.

so I guess will have to wait and see what comes out of it.
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Jlc
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 20:50
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Are you aware of the potential costs if you take it to a contested hearing?

That comment about 'it's your responsibility to know who was driving' is stretching the full truth slightly. (Some here call it an outright lie)

But it's water under the bridge as the driver has been nominated. (There is a potential statutory defence that if after reasonable diligence the driver cannot be identified - but the penalty is 6 points and a high hurdle to clear)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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mickR
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 21:16
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In the thread mentioned in Jlc's post # 7 im pretty sure the 3 pics were on the NIP.
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sgtdixie
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 21:37
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I would suggest this needs moving to the speeding forum.
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MB69
post Mon, 9 Jan 2017 - 22:12
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I will start a new thread in the spoeeding forum once I get the summons/.

Yes I am fully aware of the costs. Mags guidelines says I am only going to get max 3pts still but could potentially be a bigger fine

I took legal advice and was advised against not naming the driver. I knew who the driver was in that location. So no point going down that avenue as the consequence could have been a lot worse. A FtF is not very good with insurance compared with a SP code!

And no there was no photos whatsoever in the NIP. A letter saying the location and time of the incident and the speed that was involved.

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MB69
post Tue, 10 Jan 2017 - 17:22
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I need to obtain an 'acceptable evidence' for location of a camera. looking online, I can see the location through speed camera websites, however if I produce that as evidence, I am sure the CPS/Mags will immediately decline it as acceptable?

What is the best way of obtaining something that can be relied on in court?

If I send a FoI request to a said force/Highway agency, would they then have to provide exact location of fixed cameras within a stretch of the road?



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