PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Civil Enforcement Ltd
Cloud9
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:33
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



Hi,

I posted for advice a while ago but it only got 1 reply.

The original parking charge was for late evening (after 23:00) October 2017, I'm the registered keeper but the car has myself +2 others that can drive it. I know that I wasn't driving but have nothing to prove it, I was between two 12hr shifts and in bed ready for a 5:30am start. Of the two other drivers, I can tell by actions which one borrowed the car that evening, but the little shits won't admit it, obviously I'm not going to tell CE Ltd this information.

Despite them telling me to ignore it, it looks like CE isn't going away and I'm on the hook for £236.

I got a letter today from CE stating:

If we do not receive a reply within 30-days from the date of this letter, we will be left with no alternative but to issue proceedings in the County Court.

I'm not certain if this is still just a threat or a letter before proceedings.

My question is, how can I phrase a response that limits the damage? After ignoring them for so long, will a response now just intensify their focus on me?

This post has been edited by Cloud9: Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:36
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 18)
Advertisement
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:33
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Pensioner
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:38
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 108
Joined: 22 Jul 2017
Member No.: 93,141



QUOTE (Cloud9 @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:33) *
Hi,

I posted for advice a while ago but it only got 1 reply.

The original parking charge was for late evening (after 23:00) October 2017, I'm the registered keeper but the car has myself +2 others that can drive it. I know that I wasn't driving but have nothing to prove it, I was between two 12hr shifts and in bed ready for a 5:30am start. Of the two other drivers, I can tell by actions which one borrowed the car that evening, but the little shits won't admit it, obviously I'm not going to tell CE Ltd this information.

Despite them telling me to ignore it, it looks like CE isn't going away and I'm on the hook for £236.

I got a letter today from CE stating:

If we do not receive a reply within 30-days from the date of this letter, we will be left with no alternative but to issue proceedings in the County Court.

I'm not certain if this is still just a threat or a letter before proceedings.

My question is, how can I phrase a response that limits the damage? After ignoring them for so long, will a response now just intensify their focus on me?



http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=118527&hl=
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:40
Post #3


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



Cheers pensioner, after posting I played around with the tabs and found my original post.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:42
Post #4


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,101
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



The 1 reply you got was valid, did you send the suggested letter ?

Treat the latest letter as a proper LBA Letter before action, to which you must reply.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 13:54
Post #5


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



I have to admit, I didn't contact them at all.

I got talked into continuing the ignore tactic. What the hell should I say now, I feel like i'm in a pit and I'm just digging it deeper.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kommando
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:17
Post #6


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 4,101
Joined: 6 Oct 2012
Member No.: 57,558



This is CEL, they will raise a claim no matter what you write back to then but also they discontinue 100% of all claims where the defendant follows the instructions on this forum.

You have to reply to this LBA so you are seen as being reasonable, this is a legal term which means in small claims there are no extra costs to pay.

So

1 Click report and ask the mods to combine the 2 posts

2. Search the forum for one of the latest replies where the LBA does not meet the newly introduced rules Pre-action Protocol for Debt Claim. Change to suit and post for critique.

3. Post a copy of the LBA with personal details removed.

4. Start looking at CEL claim threads, only the recent ones and start work on your defence in advance of the claim coming through the door.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 18:22
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,401
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



If you want to teach the little shits a lesson then you can name them as the driver at the time.

Your response to the LBC is to write to them asking that in order to narrow the issues in the matter would they please send you copies of all the documents that they will be relying on in the claim so that you can provide a correct response. In particular, but not limited to, a copy of the notice on the windscreen if it was issued, a copy of the original Notice to keeper that was issued and a copy of the contract between CEL and the landowner that is alleged gives the claimant the right take action for alleged breaches of the rules in the car park. A witness statement stating that there is a contract in existence will be insufficient.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 08:32
Post #8


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,987
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



You got one, correct response. You dont start a new thread either, as that muddies it. Hit REPORT and ask a mod if they would *please* merge your threads, as per the rules you agreed to when signing up.

Its CEL

They back down before court, as long as you have defended it. So no worries there. Theyre easy, but a PITA until then.

Whjo talked you into it? Are they a collection of people who do this every day, for 5 years, with a good collective experience, or just some random person? Youre of course free to ignore the advice here, but do so at your own risk. If you fail to defend the inevitable - and i mean inevitable - court claim, thats gonna be aboUT 3350 if you pay immediately, ruined credit for 6 years if you dont.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 14:43
Post #9


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



QUOTE (ostell @ Thu, 17 May 2018 - 19:22) *
If you want to teach the little shits a lesson then you can name them as the driver at the time.


I'm really tempted too, but my main defence is that they failed to send the registered keeper notice within 14days. If I name the one I'm guessing did it, will that screw up that defence?

Just going through other CEL letters now, trying to get something cobbled together for checking here but being on nights isn't helping.

I've also looked at the signage (i'll include some photo's soon of everything I've received once edited for name removal) and it basically states you have 10mins to phone and pay. There is no option for simply driving back out and refusing the "contract" which I think goes against the consumer contracts schedule 2.

There's loads of stuff going on in my head, I need sleep and come back to this but thank you for everyones help so far.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:24
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,401
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



If you have a failure to comply with POFA then go with that. The 14 days onlyl applies if there was no windscreen ticket. Otherwise it is between day 28 & 56.

They have to allow for people to refuse the contract.

If it is a no windscreen ticket and more than 14 days then search for a relevant BOGOFF response.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:47
Post #11


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



QUOTE (ostell @ Fri, 18 May 2018 - 17:24) *
If you have a failure to comply with POFA then go with that. The 14 days onlyl applies if there was no windscreen ticket. Otherwise it is between day 28 & 56.

They have to allow for people to refuse the contract.

If it is a no windscreen ticket and more than 14 days then search for a relevant BOGOFF response.


Thanks for that, it is an APNR carpark. The incident was the 11/10/17 and we went on holiday on the 5th November with nothing received. The notice was waiting on the doorstep when we returned so it was delivered after the 5th at least.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 17:42
Post #12


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,927
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



What's the date on the Notice ?

Never rely on a single point in a defence

The strategy for defending CEL claims is to include so many provable examples of their corrupt practices that they drop the claim rather than explain themselves to a judge
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 18:38
Post #13


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



Unfortunately, I've not got the very first demand, it got lost. It's a shame as I've got all the rest that arrived.

I was thinking that as the minimum it could have arrived on my doorstep was 24 days, is it worth winging it with a BOGOFF or asking for copies of all paperwork again?

Here's what I'm thinking of sending:

To whom it may concern:

I am the keeper of vehicle XXYY XXX which is the subject of Charge Notice YYYYY.

The notice fails to comply with many aspects of paragraph 9 of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012, namely but not limited to, failing to deliver within 14 days. I, as keeper, cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver on that occasion. I have no legal requirement to identify the driver and you have not specifically asked me to do so in any of your correspondence I've received so far.

I do not expect to hear from you again regarding this matter save a response telling me that all further action is cancelled.


I don't know if I should also include something about cancellation rights which I'm sure I read in the Consumer credit act, as the signage has no facility to drive in and not park (i'll include the signage pics)



This post has been edited by Cloud9: Mon, 21 May 2018 - 18:48
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 21 May 2018 - 22:39
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,868
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Member No.: 32,130



QUOTE
I was thinking that as the minimum it could have arrived on my doorstep was 24 days, is it worth winging it with a BOGOFF or asking for copies of all paperwork again?
wait till 25th May when GDPR takes effect, and send a SAR (Google it) for all data, letters, photos, everything they hold on you and this car.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 07:13
Post #15


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,987
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



"I have no legal requirement to identify the driver and you have not specifically asked me to do so in any of your correspondence I've received so far."
Why add the last bit? It implies if they ask youre under some obligation to respond.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 07:38
Post #16


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



Thanks School Run Mum,

Modified to state:

To whom it may concern:

I am the keeper of vehicle XXYY XXX which is the subject of Charge Notice YYYYY.

The notice fails to comply with many aspects of paragraph 9 of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012, namely but not limited to, failing to deliver within 14 days. I, as keeper, cannot be held liable for the actions of the driver on that occasion. I have no legal requirement to identify the driver and you have not specifically asked me to do so in any of your correspondence I've received so far.

I would like to make a request for access to personal data pursuant to Article 15 of the General Data Protection Regulation. I am concerned that your company’s information practices may be putting my personal information at undue risk of exposure or in fact has breached its obligation to safeguard my personal information.

Yours sincerely,

Cloud9


It might sound daft, but I was going to send this by email, but should it be backed up with a recorded delivery hard copy?


QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:13) *
"I have no legal requirement to identify the driver and you have not specifically asked me to do so in any of your correspondence I've received so far."
Why add the last bit? It implies if they ask youre under some obligation to respond.


My thinking was that if this went to court, it would show that I'm aware that they should be asking who the driver was. If it doesn't read this way, it can always be removed.

Thanks.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nosferatu1001
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 07:43
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 17,987
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Member No.: 15,642



Well thats what I was getting at

They can only invite the keeper to name the driver, under POFA, and thats only if they CHOOSe to use POFA to try to hold the keeper liable. Pretty sure they dont bother with POFA, so you are actually showing you are not aware....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ostell
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 08:00
Post #18


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8,401
Joined: 8 Mar 2013
Member No.: 60,457



I have no legal requirement to identify the driver and you have not specifically asked me to do so in any of your correspondence I've received so far. will not be doing so.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cloud9
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 09:20
Post #19


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9
Joined: 24 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,127



Thanks for clearing that up, as ever, all of your help is very greatly appreciated.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Tuesday, 16th October 2018 - 06:52
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.