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UKPC- small claim court, court case for unpaid tickets on private land
sharea
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:01
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I live on the private property since 2009. In 2013 I was informed that UKPC will be controlling the parking to make sure no unauthorised vehicles
are parked in the parking spaces provided for people living at the property. Long story short, I lost one of my permits, contacted UKPC twice- no reply, got
parking tickets (about 10), did not contact them anymore and now received a letter saying they are taking me to the court. I have completed my defence (not sure whether that was a good decision, should have asked for professional advice first) and now I got Notice of Proposed Allocation to the small Claims Track and questionnaire if I want to use a mediation service. I have started filling this is but then I thought, I do not want to compromise.
This is ridiculous. I live here and they want to charge me for parking to which, I believe, I am entitled to. The purpose of the controlled parking was to stop people who do not live at the property from parking here, however, it seems
that people who live at the property are the one to suffer most. Please help. I do not what to do..
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post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:01
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ostell
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:19
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This is a common problem. Once they have got rid of the trespassers they can only make money by going for the residents.

Post up the defence you submitted and get out your lease and see what it says about parking etc and having to display permits and pay a third party when you don't.

Demand the managing agent, the ones that hired them, tell them to cancel.

This post has been edited by ostell: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:33
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Umkomaas
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:25
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QUOTE
I live here and they want to charge me for parking to which, I believe, I am entitled to.

It's not what you 'believe' you are entitled to, it's what your deeds/leasehold/tenancy agreement say that you are legally entitled to.

Time to dig them out - and check them out.
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Jlc
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 19:34
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They are currently banned from accessing the DVLA - not confirmed for what yet. Hopefully, for pursuing lease holders... wink.gif

Either way worth keeping an eye as may be worth mentioning if at all relevant to your case.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 21:49
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QUOTE
now I got Notice of Proposed Allocation to the small Claims Track and questionnaire if I want to use a mediation service. I have started filling this is but then I thought, I do not want to compromise.

Read bargepole's summary of how to fill in the N180.

It's linked in the second post on MSE here, all about court stage (and some 99% of well-prepped defendants on these two forums, win):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=4816822

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/20...ed-by-dvla.html

No to Mediation. Read bargepole's walk through all the questions.

Show us what you actually put in your defence - you did keep a copy...?

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 - 21:50
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sharea
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 14:30
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Please find the attached my tenancy agreement. I do not know about the lease but I found information on the land registry.
I have submitted defence online. I must have a copy somewhere. Will post it soon. Thank you for your help. I appreciate it.

This post has been edited by sharea: Tue, 1 May 2018 - 15:25
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 14:57
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Well you have the right to quiet enjoyment. UKPC are in breach of this. Sched 2 para 1

Landlorsd name is visible in sched 3 para 5!

Cant see anything in there talking about parking spaces, just a general note about communal spaces and a right to use it. However by the same token there is nothing allowing them to vary the agreement, nothing stating youre bound to contrct with somenoe else, etc.

Was the head lease attached as schedule 6? If not, youre not bound by it acoording to the terms.
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sharea
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 15:27
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I must have missed it. Removed now. Sorry.
No, the head lease was not attached to the agreement.
This is the only document I have.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 15:30
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Then you know youre formally NOT bound by the head lease, so they cannot point to it
What was said about parking by the agents?
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 15:40
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The problem with your tenancy agreement is that it does not grant you the right to park anywhere.

That being so, if you believe that your landlord has granted you the right to park, in an ideal world, you need a copy of his/her lease granting a right to park and written authority from him/her granting that right to you.

When you were given the parking permit(s), did you sign anything or were you given any other documentation? It is possible that you might have agreed the parking terms.

That does not mean that you are liable for the parking charge, but it does mean that you have more work to do in defending a claim than someone who has been granted a right to park under a lease or tenancy agreement.
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sharea
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 16:03
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And that is what I have put in my defence.
Now while I am reading all posts I started to think its poor sad.gif

Well, I remember when my landlord has told me about parking control and has given me two permits.
I didn't get any letter from the property management. When it comes to the property management all the letters are sent to my landlord.
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Eljayjay
post Tue, 1 May 2018 - 21:17
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Do you have a copy of the parking agreement?

If you do or can get hold of a copy, you may well find that it the parking company does not have the authority of the owner or occupier of the land to operate there.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 08:07
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Elijay - no explicit mention of parking, but a right to use communal spaces - and if parking isnt allocated, and as this is NOT defined otherwise in the AST, this MUST be interpreted to include the parking spaces under the CRA2015.
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sharea
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 08:29
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I dont have a copy of parking agreement. There are signs at the entrance and near parking spaces.
What should I do then?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 08:53
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You havent answered the question - surely the agent said something about parking? It owuld normally have been in any advert etc. THINK here - even before agreeing the place, what were you promised about the site?

"No unauthorised parking"

Theyre stuffed
By virtue of that wording, if they contend you were NOT authorised to park, then they have NOT offered you parking - "no...parking". Without an OFFER there cannot be a contract. This is a fundamentaol issue

Without a contract they have no claim.
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sharea
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 09:16
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I moved in in 2009 and there was no controlled parking. In 2013 I got two permits from the landlord and he said UKPC will be in operation
to get rid of non- residents. The problem was I lost one of the permits. Did send them letter twice saying I have lost it and nothing happened.
I kept getting parking tickets. I asked my landlord to contact them and again they have not responded. Unfortunately, I dont have a proof of postage
but maybe my landlord could write a letter saying he was trying to contact them too?

nosferatu1001

What does it mean then? I have not been offered to park so I cannot park there?
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Jlc
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 09:25
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QUOTE (sharea @ Wed, 2 May 2018 - 10:16) *
What does it mean then? I have not been offered to park so I cannot park there?

They claim you owe them money by virtue of a contract formed with them. As this contract cannot be formed, as described above, then you owe them nothing.

They will disagree of course.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 10:33
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Yes, we get that when you moved in there was no controlled parking. However I bet SOMEONE there said" you have two spaces to use, so park there"?
You also have that it was granted by use for 4 years before this new scheme was introduced

What I am telling you is that you need to read up on "forbidding signs". In order for UKPC to create a contract with you, which is their claim, then they have to offer something of valiue to you, you have to accept their offer, and you have to exchange consideraiton. Here, they have said if you are not authorised you CANNOT park, meaning UKPC do not OFFEr you anything, and therefore they cannot possibly say there is a contrac t- they have fallen at the first hurdle.

Of course, you ARE authorised to park ther e- your agreement hasnt altered, you have access to the communal faciities which dont have any other definition so would include PARKING, because that is the interpretation MOST favourable to YOU as is required under the CRA2015.
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Eljayjay
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 10:38
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I think the big problem here is that you are short of documentation and short of evidence for both the claim and your defence.

You could try to overcome this by following the two-part process mentioned below.

Part 1:-

Your defence could read along the following lines...

The Claimant has provided a minimal amount of information in relation to the cause of its claim, thus making it almost impossible for me to mount a robust defence.

The Claimant has not provided the parking agreement between it and the owner or occupier of the land purporting to grant the right to the Claimant to charge for parking.

The Claimant has not provided the site plan provided by it to its accredited trade association.

The Claimant has not provided a copy of the written contract for the alleged debt.

The Claimant has not provided the accredited trade association’s code of practice to which it claims to adhere.

If there is a lease governing parking on the land, the Claimant has not provided a copy of the lease.

If a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land, the Claimant has not provided a copy of those rules or regulations duly signed, etc. by the person(s) who made them.

If a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions, the Claimant has not provided a note of the specific provisions in the lease in accordance with which those rules or regulations were made.

If a lease exists and it granted individual rights to park on the land to a particular person (e.g. the lessee), the Claimant has not provided a note of the name and address of that person and a copy of the instrument which either transferred those individual rights from that person to your company or permitted them to be shared by that person and your company.

I have written to the Claimant seeking this missing documentation and any other documents on which it will rely in Court so that the Claimant and I have an opportunity to narrow the issues between us without the necessity of proceeding to a court hearing in accordance with The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims is made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice effective from 1 October 2017.

In the event of the Claimant failing to respond on all of the points contained in my request, I ask that its claim should be struck out by the Court.

Additionally, I ask the Court to allow me the opportunity to amend my defence in the light of the information contained in the Claimant’s response.

<Add any other points which you wish to make and a statement of truth>


Part 2:-

At the same time, you would need to write to the Claimant or its solicitor along the following lines…

Dear Sirs,

I am writing this letter in response to your claim (No. xxxxxxx) for a parking charge, etc. issued through the County Court Business Centre at Northampton. Your reference xxxxxx applies.

I do not know why you are demanding a parking charge and, that being so, I am defending the claim. As we are required by The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice to narrow the issues between us, I am willing to reconsider my position provided that you supply me with the following documents:-

<tab> the parking agreement between your company and the owner or occupier of the land purporting to grant the right to your company to charge for parking;

<tab> the site plan provided by your company to its accredited trade association;

<tab> a copy of the written contract for the alleged debt;

<tab> the accredited trade association’s code of practice to which your company claims to adhere;

<tab> if there is a lease governing parking on the land, a copy of the lease;

<tab> if a lease exists and any rules or regulations have been made in accordance with its provisions to allow your company to operate a parking scheme on the land:-

<tab><tab> (a) a copy of those rules or regulations duly signed, etc. by the person(s) who made them; and
<tab><tab> (b) a note of the specific provisions in the lease in accordance with which those rules or regulations were made;

<tab> if a lease exists and it granted individual rights to park on the land to a particular person (e.g. the lessee), a note of the name and address of that person and a copy of the instrument which either transferred those individual rights from that person to your company or permitted them to be shared by that person and your company; and

<tab> any other documents on which you will rely in Court.

I look forward to receiving the documents from you as soon as possible.

Yours faithfully,

This post has been edited by Eljayjay: Wed, 2 May 2018 - 10:41
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The Rookie
post Wed, 2 May 2018 - 11:38
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There is an argument that the Landlord giving Sharea the two permits confirmed they had the right to park two cars. Its not great but its better than nothing.

Also UKPC by not providing a replacement permit have tried to enrich themselves by withholding something Sharea clearly had a right to, not legally, but morally a form of entrapment.


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