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Private ANPR NTK, Help and guidance please
Davethedriver
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 15:38
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Hi, I’ve received a PCN from an ANPR car park from Britannia parking. They allege the contravention on 30/3/18 and have sent a notice dated 16/4/18, then received today.

Reading the forums I’ve already sent a basic appeal stating they haven’t complied with schedule 4 of the POFA, which is true and stated I wasn’t the driver, which is also true, but I get the impression this isn’t often enough.

I am aware that the driver did purchase a ticket and one of three things have happened I can guess at.

1) it’s an error by Brit park
2) the driver inputted the wrong reg details as it’s not their day to day car
3) the driver possibly overstayed the ticket time slightly

In 1) you’d like to think it could be dealt with sensibly and you could call or mail in and discuss it. in 2) I guess if I could confirm this, again you could come to an agreement and in 3) I’d be inclined to pay if proven


I don’t look to find loopholes but I am annoyed the car park company don’t give you more information, don’t give you a route to discuss the charge and in essence make you trust the PCN and assume the worst and for some, presumably get payment from the keeper.

Can I seek advice on guidance and how to play this from now? Was the initial appeal the right thing to send?

Many thanks

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post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 15:38
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 15:52
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QUOTE (Davethedriver @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:38) *
I get the impression this isn’t often enough.

You've done the right thing - I presume they are not claiming any 'keeper liability' under Protection of Freedoms Act?

If they are stupid enough not to cancel it, POPLA will...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 15:54
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Don't call them by the way, keep everything in writing, although I suspect you've probably twigged this by now.

It doesn't much matter what you put in the initial appeal, although letting them know now that you weren't the driver is never a bad thing.

They reject pretty much ANYTHING you send them (they make no profits if they don't).

Wait for the rejection and then we'll advise from there. Do you have any proof you were elsewhere at the time? This could include transactions on a bank statement for somewhere else, or a witness statement from someone you were with. If you do, even better, it will strengthen your case and significantly weaken theirs (assuming you're correct about their failure to follow PoFA.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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Davethedriver
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:21
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:54) *
Do you have any proof you were elsewhere at the time?

(assuming you're correct about their failure to follow PoFA.


Thanks both

I don't have any proof now, other than I am aware who was driving!

Isn't the PoFA 14 days then?
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kommando
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:36
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You don't need proof, its balance of probabilities so a witness statement by yourself would be enough.
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Jlc
post Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 18:30
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QUOTE (Davethedriver @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 17:21) *
Isn't the PoFA 14 days then?

For an ANPR PCN they have to deliver within 14 days to even attempt such liability on the keeper. As it's dated outside this limit then they'd be in trouble if they are claiming as such...?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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Davethedriver
post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 12:51
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Hi, I have now finally received a rejection of the appeal and now 2 weeks to pay the reduced fine or appeal to POPLA, although they are rejecting the fact that POPLA applies to this.

Having done some digging and looking at the photo's I'm pretty sure the PCN has been issued for being 6 minutes over the 2 hours for which a ticket was purchased and it's also possible that the ticket was purchased with the wrong reg completed as this is not the usual car for the driver.

So,
  • Do I pursue an appeal with POPLA - but lose my access the £60 rather than the £120
  • Do I contact them and see if they will look for the ticket with the other Reg on it
  • or do I just pay the £60 as the driver being 6 minutes over and/or the wrong reg is after all, cause for a PCN prsumable?!

thanks
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Jlc
post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 12:58
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QUOTE (Davethedriver @ Tue, 8 May 2018 - 13:51) *
...pay the reduced fine or appeal to POPLA, although they are rejecting the fact that POPLA applies to this.

Please explain the last bit? I presume you meant PoFA but still needs expansion.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 12:58
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What do you mean that they are rejecting POPLA? That makes no sense. Have you mistyped?
It isnt a fine. Its an invoice
Surely £100 not £120? Given the ceiling is £100....
Appeal to POPLA because theyre REQUIRED TO GIVE YOU 10 MINUTES GRACE, as a minimum.
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ostell
post Tue, 8 May 2018 - 13:58
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But they failed to deliver the Notice To Keeper within 14 days AND failed to apply a grace period, a minimum of 10 mins according to their code of practise. You can't possibly Lise at POPLA.
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Davethedriver
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 14:26
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hi, apologies for my previous response, I was dealing with the appeal rejection without having actually received a proper letter.

I know have a standard appeal rejection. I have spoken to them on the phone and this is how I know the length of time in question here.

they have extended the payment of the £60 to tomorrow, or its £100.

My reason for appeal as because of the timing of the notice received and now I think it's reasonable to have expected more than 6 minutes, but it's also highly likely the driver put the wrong registration details into their payment machine!

So, do I still appeal to POPLA - I have no idea how to do that

or do I just pay £60?!?

thanks
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Dwaynedouglas
post Thu, 17 May 2018 - 15:19
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Wed, 18 Apr 2018 - 16:54) *
Don't call them by the way, keep everything in writing, although I suspect you've probably twigged this by now.


You didn't admit driver liability when you called did you???

QUOTE
But they failed to deliver the Notice To Keeper within 14 days AND failed to apply a grace period, a minimum of 10 mins according to their code of practise. You can't possibly lose at POPLA.


Anyway, there should be a POPLA code alongside the formal rejection of your appeal...

Is there?


--------------------
I'm not a lawyer or legally trained, my opinion is based on my experience - follow at your own risk.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 08:09
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OK what is the EXACT reason stated for this? Overstay of 6 minutes? or overstay of more?

Youre not being particularly clear here
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Davethedriver
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 15:23
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Sorry for the lack of clarity. I have a POPLA code.

the reason for the PCN is not spelt out other than they state it was because of a failure to purchase a valid ticket.

My inquiries suggest the ticket was purchased but with the wrong reg. I didn't appeal on that basis, I appealed that they issued a PCN to the keeper outside of 14 days.

I have never stated the drivers details

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ostell
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:26
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So that is your appeal to POPLA:- they have failed to comply with POFA by failing to deliver within 14 days. Plus whatever else that is wrong, such as the signs.
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Davethedriver
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:29
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Thanks, do I need to search for templates is it simpler to just tell them what the original appeal was?
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ostell
post Fri, 18 May 2018 - 16:48
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Just keep it in simple English for POPLA and explain why it is not relevant. Treat them as thought they were 5 year olds. Put it on here for critique.
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Davethedriver
post Wed, 6 Jun 2018 - 12:41
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Hi, I have appealed to POPLA, keeping it simple saying I am the keeper, but not the driver on the day of the alleged infringement etc but my appeal is based on POPLA own direction of a PCN and NTK being received within 14, which it's not

Was this adequate. I've not been updated, the Tracker currently says its awaiting evidence from the operator, but have I just not done enough here?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 6 Jun 2018 - 12:43
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we have no idea, as we said to post it here first - which you didnt do

Its only been 2 weeks and I thin kthe operator has 28 days to respond inany case.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 6 Jun 2018 - 13:13
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It's not POPLA's own direction of a PCN and NtK being received within 14 days.

It's part of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). Don't confuse the two.


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Sometimes I use big words I don't understand in an effort to make myself sound more photosynthesis.
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