4am on the M4 out in Wiltshire |
4am on the M4 out in Wiltshire |
Sun, 9 May 2004 - 22:42
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#1
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 9 May 2004 Member No.: 1,188 |
Hi all,
Came across your excellent forum while doing some research after being pulled last week on the M4 at 4am !! Here's the deal: Was doing ~110 out in Wiltshire on bank holiday monday at 4:37am, on my way to Stanstead airport for a very important meeting in Rome later that day. No other cars on the road and only a handful of lorries. The next thing I know a car is coming up behind me, with the left headlight hanging a little high and dazzling me, so I pull away a bit to try and put some distance between us. 15 seconds later on come the blues and two's, and I'm being pulled for doing 118 (0.500 miles in 15.20 seconds). A few things to mention here: * The police report said "P.P." - which I'm assuming is Provida Police Pilot, however it definitely wasn't a Provida 2000 unit (no video display in the cockpit, just a red digital display with my average speed) * The partol car was coming up behind me at speed, which seems to go against ACPO guidelines * It was dark - so no shadows or markers to gauge my driving by My driving licence is away at the DVLA for a change of address, so I'm presenting my insurance and DVLA cover letter at my local police station tomorrow (Monday). Please could you guys give me some advice about how I should proceed. I am a member of the AA and I understand they can appoint a local barrister - are these AA barristers any good, or do you lot recommend any solicitors in the Wiltshire area that specialise in road law? Should I ask for the video evidence too? I didn't see a video display in the cockpit - only this red digital readout.. I live in Bristol but work in London, taking home a salary of £12k PA, and driving 25,000 miles a year (I bought this car on April 8th with 6100 miles on the clock, and it already has 8200). The fact I was pulled at 4am on a bank holiday on my way to the airport for a business meeting shows that I need my car to work and can't use public transport. In terms of previous convictions, I was flashed doing 69mph around the M25 (through roadworks marked 50mph at 1am) in October 2000 for which I received 3pts - will this harm my defence? Many thanks in advance, Chris |
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Sun, 9 May 2004 - 22:42
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 06:50
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#2
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Member Group: Members Posts: 966 Joined: 20 Apr 2004 From: ..and not from Guildford afterall! Member No.: 1,120 |
I cant tell you if the AA will supply a barrister, but I can tell you that I found talking to their legal advice line somewhat frustrating - I think they are only really setup to tell the lay man what they need to do ('fill in the s172 form') and what happens next (at a pound a minute)
If you want to see any evidence then unfortunately you will have to plead not guilty to begin with - sounds like your speed is way over fixed penalty boundaries so we dont need to cover that One of the eldar postes would be better at addressing your other issues but heres some thoughts. Your existing 3 points _shouldnt_ count against you BUT if you are looking at enough points so your total would be 12 (not the same as if they just ban you) then you would want to notify them of your existing points as this might stop you totting up and getting a ban anyway. Why you were speeding and when etc is more then likely irrelevant, I suppose its possible that it might help with mitigation???????? |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 07:16
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#3
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,433 Joined: 19 Oct 2003 From: Lancashire Member No.: 436 |
QUOTE I was pulled at 4am on a bank holiday on my way to the airport for a business meeting shows that I need my car to work and can't use public transport. QUOTE Why you were speeding and when etc is more then likely irrelevant, I suppose its possible that it might help with mitigation ????????
Might help with mitigation!!! Not likely. Had you been taking someone giving birth maybe, but certainly not for a business meeting. -------------------- DW190
BLUNT PENCILS ARE MORE RELIABLE THAN SHARP MEMORIES |^^^^^^^^^^^\|| |www.PePiPoo.com_||'""|""\_____ |_________________||__ |__|____|) |(@) |(@)""**|(@)(@)**|(@)|(@) Frequently Asked Questions |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 07:45
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#4
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Member Group: Members Posts: 149 Joined: 6 Dec 2003 From: Westerly my 'ansom Member No.: 620 |
One of the simple ways to id plod behind you at night is that the lights always look very bright or that they are using bulbs that are a different colour, although with the colour you can be caught out with Audi/Beemer/Merc etc.
When a vehicle quickly approaches from behind, ideally you do not attempt to race them but let them pass, no matter how important your business meeting is/was. That said, if stopped, in these circumstances, I think I would have to say something along the lines of; you were fleeing from a nutter in the last services and thought it was him [A variant of this theme worked for a couple of footballers] I can think of no other way to avoid the inevitable being that you actually speeded up when you saw the jam sarnie catching you. I would also suggest that you try to curb/control the competitive spirit in you as it may well get you/others killed let alone banned. Failing that buy a play station. |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 10:51
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#5
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New Member Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 9 May 2004 Member No.: 1,188 |
Thanks for the advice so far, although in particular I need to know:
* Is it worth asking for the video evidence and calibration certificate? * What other evidence should I provide? : - letter from employer stating that I work in London and am needed out of office hours for 24 hour callout (all of which is true).. ? - proof that I've driven 2000 miles in the last month? The patrol car didn't have xeon headlights, and as I said one of them was hanging high and dazzling me. It seemed like an old Volvo, and didn't have a Provida 2000 for sure--can anyone ID the unit (red digital readout)? Is it an older Police Pilot model? Does it come with video? If I plead not guilty and they fail to present the video evidence, what is the procedure from there? I am probably going to plead guilty but would like to present some facts to the court, and I was wondering what the best approach would be, as a damage limitation exercise. Many thanks, Chris |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 10:56
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#6
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Member Group: Administrators Posts: 9,760 Joined: 30 Mar 2003 From: Wiltshire, UK Member No.: 4 |
Chris,
Wiltshire Constabulary use VASCAR (but not always with the video recording equipment attached) and their traffic officers are very competent. -------------------- Regards, Mika
Useful Info: 1 Read This First 2. 14-day Rule; 3. 6-month Rule. 4. NIP Wizard. 5. Success Stories. |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 11:02
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#7
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Member Group: Members Posts: 5,109 Joined: 16 Dec 2003 From: Manchester Member No.: 675 |
Chris
The law in regard to motorway speeding is different, in that a police officer's word is enough, any other evidence is not 'required corroberation'. From what you have said, you appear to 'banged to rights'. Perhaps a guilty plea with the mitigation you have already mentioned may get you a short ban. But I fear this may be the best you can hope for. Chris -------------------- Chris
The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Bush Acoustic Music Club Acoustic Folk at the Nursery Inn Tameside folk concerts |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 12:01
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#8
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Member Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: 28 Jul 2003 Member No.: 183 |
I can sympathise with police officers with dodgy headlights, I got pulled by one a few weeks ago. I pulled out of a side road in a small village near to where I live and straight away a car with really bright headlights started tail-gating me, so much so that I thought it was some dickhead boy racer (which I remarked to my wife at the time).
Anyway, I pulled away from him a bit once we were clear of the village, and he closed in again and sat close enough at times that I couldn't see his headlights in my mirror. I then indicated and pulled off into a country lane and he followed (although he didn't feel the need to indicate) and eventually pulled me over. The ridiculous thing is that his whole argument was that I was speeding in a 50 zone, which was fair as I was doing 60, it's one of those bizzare roads that used to be NSL, which they changed for no obvious reason. But the bad display of driving on his part far outweighed anything I had done. I am fairly impartial usually as far as plod is concerned, but it's getting hard to remain so. |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 20:32
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#9
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Member Group: Members Posts: 325 Joined: 22 Jan 2004 Member No.: 796 |
While I agree that being tailgated is no fun, and it's tempting to try to pull away, I've always found the only reasonable solution is to slow down. Idiots will find some way to get past, and anyone else will eventually get the message and fall back.
Apart from anything else, if someone is on your tail it's the only safe thing to do. You need a lot more stopping distance as you won't be able to put your foot on the brake hard. I've lost count of the number of times I've had to brake because of heavy traffic ahead (usually motorways), and been more worried about being hit from behind than about hitting the traffic ahead. If they're really persistent, I sometimes find that it helps to tap the brake gently (as long as your brakes are set right so the light comes on before the brakes take any effect). robin |
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 20:44
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#10
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Member Group: Members Posts: 42 Joined: 30 Sep 2003 Member No.: 377 |
I agree that the only sensible course of action when being tailgated/baited is just to slow down and let them pass. As a metter of interest, a few years ago I was tailgated by a police car whose driver obviously thought I didn't know he was there, so when he put on the lights/siren etc I stopped very quickly - too quickly for the plod who went straight into the back of my car. His first question - 'Why did you stop so quickly ?' Hard to believe, but not as impossible as my attempts to get the police to prosecute him !
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Mon, 10 May 2004 - 21:02
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#11
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Member Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 3 Nov 2003 From: England ;) Member No.: 488 |
I couldnt persuade the police to take an interest in the uninsured driver that ran into me, not a chance of getting them interested in prosecuting one of their own!
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Tue, 11 May 2004 - 07:39
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#12
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Member Group: Members Posts: 4,433 Joined: 19 Oct 2003 From: Lancashire Member No.: 436 |
[quote=davleigh] so when he put on the lights/siren etc I stopped very quickly - too quickly for the plod who went straight into the back of my car. His first question - 'Why did you stop so quickly ?'
I had one like this fifteen years ago. "Why did you brake so harsh"? "Cause a kid ran into road" "I didn' see any kid" "Didn't you , did you see any cars?" -------------------- DW190
BLUNT PENCILS ARE MORE RELIABLE THAN SHARP MEMORIES |^^^^^^^^^^^\|| |www.PePiPoo.com_||'""|""\_____ |_________________||__ |__|____|) |(@) |(@)""**|(@)(@)**|(@)|(@) Frequently Asked Questions |
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