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Parking Eye ANPR based PCN, Payment made but no receipt
Rincewind
post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 13:56
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Hi All

I think there is a problem

A car is in the garage for repair so the owner gets a courtesy car

21/6 Courtesy car is parked in a Parking Eye controlled car park. The ticket machine is down several flights of stairs. so finally arrving at the ticketing machine, cash was paid and a ticket obtained which was then displayed in the car

24/6 courtesy car was returned to the garage

3/7 Driver received a message from garage that the courtesy car had picked up a parking ticket (PCN) issued on 29/6
Of course at this stage, the courtesy car has been cleaned out and returned to the garage so any paper receipt had long since have disappeared

Seems likely that the driver had typed in the Reg of his usual car (unlikely to have remembered the Reg of the courtesy car) or perhaps simply mistyped the actual Reg No In either case, Parking Eye will have an unreconciled payment (one not associated with an ANPR registration).

This must be relatively common if only through simple mis-typing so there should be a process. For example, in a sensible world, the driver should be able to speak to Parking Eye, explain the situation, have them check for unreconciled payments and/or payments associated with the other Reg Number and got the matter cleared up.

But of course, contacting Parking eye is nigh on impossible (except by letter) and certainly not within the 14 day 40% off period.

Disappointing that the BPA code of conduct does not require operators to respond to customer queries with any degree of rapidity.

so, do you experts agree - pay up and chalk it down to experience? Or is there something the driver can do?

TFAI

This post has been edited by Rincewind: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 16:33
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post Tue, 3 Jul 2018 - 13:56
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 07:52
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As its gone to Equita they WONT take this to court
Almost certain
Equita is just another Capita company, its all in house.
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Rincewind
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 11:47
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Nice to hear but what does happen?
They keep sending letters demanding money. I keep saying I have no liability
Surely they dont just give up - at least not without getting some bad debt note added to my credit file (and not telling me)?
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Ollyfrog
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 11:59
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They keep sending letters and you keep ignoring them, don't even bother replying, unless you get a letter before claim from either Parking Eye or their solicitor. That's a letter with "WILL commence" not may or might or will recommend or will ask a bigger bully to chase you.

They can't touch your credit file as you don't have a credit agreement with them. The only way your credit file would be affected is if they took you to court, you lost at court and then still didn't pay what the judge ordered within the time limit (month/28 days - not sure which). To make sure they don't sneak a claim into court without you knowing, trying to get a default judgement, if you move house within 6 years of the event, make sure you notify Parking Eye by advising them of your "new address for service" (keep a copy of that letter and a free certificate of posting).
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 13:58
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1) That all they do
Send letters
As you are aware, they cannot do more than that, as there is no credit agreement and no court judgement. Nothing. They haev NO powers
2) You dont EVER write to a debt collcetor. AS 1) they have no powers, nothing you write will make a difference, so why bother.


Ollyfrog - usually it is one month to pay.

Absolutely agree about stating your new address for service. And this is always sent to Parking Eye, not their agents.
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ManxRed
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 14:37
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As you are not governed by any credit agreement you signed, and until a court decides otherwise, this is an ALLEGED debt.

They cannot do anything to your credit file for an ALLEGED debt.

In the case of mortgages, loans, credit cards, etc. you will sign an agreement upfront agreeing to pay monies on a certain date. If you fail to pay you are in breach of an agreement you signed, and the non-payment is a debt.

This, on the other hand, is the equivalent of a bloke wandering up to you in a pub and claiming you owe him fifty quid. Until he takes you to court and a judge decides you DO owe him fifty quid, it's just an alleged debt.

This post has been edited by ManxRed: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 14:41


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Rincewind
post Wed, 23 Jan 2019 - 20:07
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Thanks for the advice.I can do ignoring - especially since I have told them several times and been ignored.
Oh and I did like the man in the pub analogy.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 08:22
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Ignore means - dont pay attention to, but file away
NEVER throw away documetns that even hint at a debt.
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cabbyman
post Thu, 24 Jan 2019 - 18:33
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However, DON'T ignore a letter before claim.


--------------------
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Rincewind
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:33
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Well what a surprise.

I have just unearthed (from the kitchen table) a letter (undated) from POPLA telling me that an Appeal has been opened with a ref number outlining the process
1 PE get 21 days
2 I then get 14 days
3 POPLA review and decide

But I know nothing about this as all efforts to launch a POPLA appeal have failed miserably because of an out of date code.

So I called POPLA and eventually discovered that they had accepted my written appeal submitted via RESOLVER (well done RESOLVER.COM). (They also claim their copy of hte letter had a date - an interesting matter but irrelevant to the main issue.)

They also tell me that they have received information fro PE and sent me a copy (which I never received). They have promised to email me a copy (which arrived 5 minutes later) and give me 7 days from today to respond

PE Evidence file (3MB pdf) includes
- the original evidence (car park photos)
- Various notices and copies of their correspondence to me- A copy of the garage Loan form in my name but not signed by me Nor any evidence it was sent to me
- confirmation from the garage that I was the keeper of the car over the period in question (19/6 to 22/6)
- Copies of all correspondence between myself and PE
I can find nothing in there that suggests PE sent me the additional information required by POFA - hardly surprising since they didn't!

I now have 7 days to comment on this.

I presume my comment is simply that
PE never sent me, the keeper, with the additional documentation required by POFA section 14 (2) (a) and 13(2) to transfer liability from the driver to the hirer namely
- a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement;
- a copy of the hire agreement; and
- a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreementAnd there is nothing in their evidence that suggests they did
A a consequence of this failure, I, as the keeper, have no liability in this matter.
Is that about right?

I cant really add the PDF as its 3MB and has a lot of personal identification information in it

This post has been edited by Rincewind: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:35
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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Yep, thats correct
ALso point out that, as the Hire form is not signed, no transfer of liability can EVER take plce, with or without the form being sent along.

Upload to another site and link here. Easy.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:44
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ostell
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 13:08
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Don't forget they should also have sent a copy of the original PCN they sent to the leasing company.
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Rincewind
post Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 15:59
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 19 Feb 2019 - 12:44) *
.

Upload to another site and link here. Easy.



Indeed but it runs to about 30 pages of PDF and removing all the personal information will be a life work. So unless its important . . . . .
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Rincewind
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 13:41
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So that did not go well
I finally got a decision from POPLAAttached File  Pepipoo_Summary.pdf ( 405.8K ) Number of downloads: 5

who have upheld the parking fine
There is at least on incorrect statement in the POPLA decisionPage 2 top says 'The driver says he was not the driver'!So he considers POFA
But goes on to say "I am satisfied that the appellant is the driver".
But surely that is not relevant as the notice was issued to the keeper and as a notice to keeper POFA requirements were not met
So he is going back to the original PCN which was issued but I thought that was not issued in time?

Confused
Also complicated by the fact that I am off ot Australia for 6 weeks!
And what am I now supposed to pay? Presumably £100?
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 14:38
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Immediate complaint to POPLA

1) if you indeed have NEVER id'd the driver, then they havce made an assertion the NtK was compliant with POFA, but that is not relevant. the ENCLOSURES have not been included, therefore the NtK as a WHOLE is not compliant.
Tihs is not optional, this is a failure to consider by POPLA and MUST be recviewed

Of course you pay the full amount, if you wouldnt
I owuld not
I doubt PE will chase this to court.
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Rincewind
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 15:47
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I agree but . . .
- I must read it all more carefully- POPLA state decision final and thats itSo what is the channel for complaint that gets them to take notice?
Simply and email (+ letter) headed 'Complaint' and outlining the point that while the PCN may be compliant for the driver it is not for the hirer.Note the justification does say 'I am satisfied that the hirer was the driver' and therefore . . .
And I have admitted to being the hirer and the garage have told them I am the hirer.

So I think POPLA are rejecting the appeal because the original PCN was eventually served on the person they believe to be the driver even thought htey have no evidence to that effect. Is there not a time limit on how long after the alleged offence they can serve the PCN on the driver?
Ploughing through the Parking Eye evidence I see section D Case details says
Contact Type: Drver
Contact Name: Sam Smale
I didn't notice that before!! I will trawl the evidence again to find anything that says I was the driver. A some is unreadable (too small a scan) and most is unsearchable (document scans)




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Rincewind
post Mon, 4 Mar 2019 - 23:19
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Oh dear.Having ploughed through all the stuff it does seem that right back at the beginning I inadvertently inferred I was the driver.Bother!So as the POPLA appeal process has just finished, I get to pay Parking eye the amount that was due at the time my appeal shoudl have been heard by POPLA namely £100?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 5 Mar 2019 - 10:25
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YEs, so thats thrown POFA compliance entirely out the window.
Yes, you pay them £100.
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