Received two letters this morning about me using the bus lane on 2 occasions in Salford City Centre a few weeks ago , one going into town centre and the other one going out , Im a private hire taxi driver and in St Helens and parts of Liverpool the bus lane can be used by Taxi drivers both Private and Hackney along with Buses , I rang them up and the other person on the phone said all borough's and city's are different and therefore they only allow Hackney not Private Hire so there is no way of getting out of paying the fine , really annoyed at this do I have a case to fight it , the blue sign clearly stated Cycle / Bus / Taxi , nothing saying no private hire taxi's or Hackney only

This post has been edited by JB2018: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 16:17

There is a difference.

'Taxis' are Hackney Carriages licensed under the Town (Police Clauses) Act 1847 and are defined in http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1980/34/section/64



Private Hire Vehicles are licensed under the Local Government (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1976.

"private hire vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted to seat [F62fewer than nine passengers], other than a hackney carriage or public service vehicle [F63or a London cab][F64or tramcar], which is provided for hire with the services of a driver for the purpose of carrying passengers;" (My emphasis)

A PHV is not a 'taxi' in terms of being able to use a bus/taxi/cycle lane.

Well all the Private hire vehicles in Glasgow use bus lanes marked Taxi (Off topic, but mentioned to make a point) I think the average man in the street would not differentiate. BTW a PHV driver could state that a Hackney carriage is not a Taxi, its a Hackney Carriage. So what is a Taxi? Thats the real question, Dictionary.com lists it as, a motor vehicle licensed to transport passengers in return for payment of a fare and typically fitted with a taximeter.

This post has been edited by Dwain: Fri, 12 Oct 2018 - 20:31

Trouble is that TSRGD 2016 defines Taxi as "(a)
in England and Wales, a vehicle licensed under—
(i)section 37 of the Town Police Clauses Act 1847(43); or
(ii)section 6 of the Metropolitan Public Carriage Act 1869(44);
or under any similar enactment; "
Both take you back to Hackney Cabs, not PHVs.
Having said that, differing councils do cite "taxi" exemptions in differing ways, Salford seem specific to allow Hackneys only while Birmingham (for example) allows both Hackney and PHVs to use bus lanes. Both councils use the same signs with the word "Taxi" on them.

Unfortunately, I cannot see any challenge on inadequate signage winning as the default is Taxi = Hackney

Thanks surely if thats the case it should say " Only " Hackney Taxi on the blue sign and not just say Taxi , totally wrong in my eyes and when I rang Salford council yesterday the arrogant women on the other end of the phone said I should of done my research before I entered Salford , Okay so ill pick a customer up in St helens not knowing where she is going until she gets in my taxi , then a 20 mile journey into Salford , ill pull over half way there and google Salford City council to find out if I can use the bus lane , what aload of rubbish I told her , It should state Hackney use only because its very confusing when another big City like Liverpool allows both

Now im in the position of do I pay the lower fines or appeal it , if I appeal it and I will most likely lose the fine will then be 3 times more

What an absolute joke of robbing people of there hard earned money

This post has been edited by JB2018: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 11:36

I have sympathy if this is the first time you are aware of differences. We often see this in say blue badge parking permissions and in bikers using bus lanes.

But if you knew there can be differences the precautionary principle applies - keep out of lanes until you know.

It has to be your choice, it is your money.
Worst case, assuming you meet deadlines on the notices is paying full penalty, 70 quid.
Before you decide what to do, post the PCN in full please.
I can't remember seeing a recent Salford Bus Lane PCN and there may be errors that can be used.

Both same as this



This post has been edited by JB2018: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 - 17:52

But the OP is not "the average man in the street", he is a licensed and (presumably) trained professional who should know the difference.

No, private hire vehicles in Glasgow use bus lanes marked "Authorised Vehicles".

I will pay it but it absolutely stinks , what a bunch of Shithouses Salford City Council rules are and the same for the Arrogant Women I spoke to on the phone

I fought one for the BiL at this location a couple of months ago. Lost but it was a close thing on signage. The council took part in the hearing, They fight hard for the money

PCN was fine

Ask if they'll exercise discretion on the second PCN owing to an honest mistake on your part.

i have had one of these from Salford, and i was driving a hackney carriage (licensed by Stafford). i have challenged it, awaiting response

had response this morning.representation accepted, PCN cancelled

TRO

https://tro.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/T...lford/SL11B.pdf

Exemption is for hackney carriages