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Foreign driver speeding fine in UK - with a twist
bourneagain
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:28
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I am a UK driver license holder but no longer resident in the UK. During a recent visit to the UK, I received a speeding fine while driving a relative's car in which I was fully insured.
The letter to RK is asking for the driver's details and address which I am happy to provide as the offender. The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.

As my license number is the one I was insured with, I feel that is the appropriate detail to provide however I don't know the consequence of this. Would someone with knowledge of this particular situation be able to shed some light here?

Alternatively, I can supply the details of the driver's license that I hold in the country I currently reside in (non EU country) however I suspect that would not help as I the insurance doesn't have knowledge of it.

What would be the appropriate response to the letter and the consequences I face?

Thank you for your help.

This post has been edited by bourneagain: Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:29
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post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:28
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The Rookie
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 11:56
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QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
I received a speeding fine while driving

No you haven't - think about it.

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
I am a UK driver license holder

The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.

Are you over 70? If not it almost certainly hasn't expired but you probably just need to renew your photocard (nothing to do with your licence to drive expiring). The expiry date is the date shown against each driving entitlement.
so 12-07-34 in this sample case


QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
As my license number is the one I was insured with, I feel that is the appropriate detail to provide however I don't know the consequence of this.

If my assumption is correct then nothing!

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
Alternatively, I can supply the details of the driver's license that I hold in the country I currently reside in (non EU country) however I suspect that would not help as I the insurance doesn't have knowledge of it.

No, as the DVLA will still tie your identity to your licence. As for insurance, irrelevant, it's the person insured not the licence.

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
What would be the appropriate response to the letter and the consequences I face?

Get the RK to name the driver, you get a S172 request in your name, you confirm you were driving, further action then partly depends on how likely you are to return to the UK, alleged speed and limit. For a foreign domiciled driver, usually nothing.


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andy_foster
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 13:08
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:56) *
No, as the DVLA will still tie your identity to your licence. As for insurance, irrelevant, it's the person insured not the licence.


For the sake of completeness, most insurance policies stipulate that the driver must either hold or have held and not been disqualified from holding a relevant licence.


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essexdriver
post Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 16:39
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Well the OP may have the same view of his licence here as some other non-eu expats. That is that their long held GB licence is suddenly no longer valid once they live abroad, they have the appropriate foreign licence but the GB one is defunct.

In the DVLA leaflet INS57P it says you must advise the DVLA of a change of address and that address must be one in GB. So presumably one could use the address of a relative who is in close contact.

However, the GOV:UK website says that to change your address on a licence (even to that relative's address) you must be a "resident of GB" which implies that an expat who only has a foreign residencial address cannot change the address on their GB licence and thus cannot satisfy the DVLA's requirements.

The question is a "resident of GB" the same as having "the right to reside in GB"? Not sure it is.
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bourneagain
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 09:15
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:56) *
QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
I received a speeding fine while driving

No you haven't - think about it.

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
I am a UK driver license holder

The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter.

Are you over 70? If not it almost certainly hasn't expired but you probably just need to renew your photocard (nothing to do with your licence to drive expiring). The expiry date is the date shown against each driving entitlement.
so 12-07-34 in this sample case

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
As my license number is the one I was insured with, I feel that is the appropriate detail to provide however I don't know the consequence of this.

If my assumption is correct then nothing!

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
Alternatively, I can supply the details of the driver's license that I hold in the country I currently reside in (non EU country) however I suspect that would not help as I the insurance doesn't have knowledge of it.

No, as the DVLA will still tie your identity to your licence. As for insurance, irrelevant, it's the person insured not the licence.

QUOTE (bourneagain @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 12:28) *
What would be the appropriate response to the letter and the consequences I face?

Get the RK to name the driver, you get a S172 request in your name, you confirm you were driving, further action then partly depends on how likely you are to return to the UK, alleged speed and limit. For a foreign domiciled driver, usually nothing.


awesome, thanks! I did indeed seem to have photocard expiry confused with license expiry so that makes it simple enough. will send back as requested.
question though, the form also asks for a contact number, i'd rather not get a phonecall, do we know if the RK is required to provide a contact number?


QUOTE (essexdriver @ Wed, 1 Sep 2021 - 17:39) *
Well the OP may have the same view of his licence here as some other non-eu expats. That is that their long held GB licence is suddenly no longer valid once they live abroad, they have the appropriate foreign licence but the GB one is defunct.

In the DVLA leaflet INS57P it says you must advise the DVLA of a change of address and that address must be one in GB. So presumably one could use the address of a relative who is in close contact.

However, the GOV:UK website says that to change your address on a licence (even to that relative's address) you must be a "resident of GB" which implies that an expat who only has a foreign residencial address cannot change the address on their GB licence and thus cannot satisfy the DVLA's requirements.

The question is a "resident of GB" the same as having "the right to reside in GB"? Not sure it is.


interesting point this, I also have this (unconfirmed) view that my UK license is defunct. I didn't provide my new address so I wonder if this would complicate things when I return the form with my UK license but foreign address...

This post has been edited by bourneagain: Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 09:16
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The Rookie
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 10:18
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Your licence doesn't become defunct unless either dates out, removed for some reason or surrendered.

The Police can make reasonable requests as to what information you provide, most don't as for phone number (thus raising a question as to whether it's reasonable or not), I'd just leave it blank.


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essexdriver
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 10:35
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Ah but do you have to surrender your licence when you are no longer a GB resident? Not my view but my sons who is a Dubai resident. He tells me that that is the generally held view out there.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 11:40
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You do if exchanging it for a foreign licence, you don't if you are not or taking a new (relevant) test for that foreign licence.

So it depends on the country you are visiting, if you can drive on a UK licence there 'forever' then you still hold the UK licence, if you can 'exchange' it to that national licence then you surrender the UK one and AIUI then you don't have it. If you decide to take a test there then again you keep it.


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bourneagain
post Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 14:06
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 2 Sep 2021 - 12:40) *
You do if exchanging it for a foreign licence, you don't if you are not or taking a new (relevant) test for that foreign licence.

So it depends on the country you are visiting, if you can drive on a UK licence there 'forever' then you still hold the UK licence, if you can 'exchange' it to that national licence then you surrender the UK one and AIUI then you don't have it. If you decide to take a test there then again you keep it.


thanks, makes sense!
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bourneagain
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 10:48
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spanner in the works...

My relative informed me when I was added to the UK insurance policy, he ticked the box that declared amongst other facts that I was a UK resident.
Sending the form back with my foreign residence address implies I am not a UK resident and therefore the insurance company should have been informed / insurance void.

Q1. Can the met request this information from the insurance company to ascertain if the policy was valid? i.e ask the for the policy details to figure out if the fact I live abroad was declared
Q2. IF yes, I suspect they would inform the insurance company who in turn would invalidate the policy going forward. Can the met at this point conclude the policy was not valid and therefore make the RK responsible?

Essentially what I am asking is how deep does the met dig in matters where a foreign driver is involved..

This post has been edited by bourneagain: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 10:50
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The Rookie
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:11
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How will the insurance company ever find out you aren't a UK resident? Who's going to tell them/check?

Unless a driver does something to make them check, the Police do not routinely look at insurance status, even if they did they would just confirm you were insured without checking specifics on information provided. You would have to raise a LOT of red flags to get them that interested!

Even then it doesn't automatically void your (his) insurance.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:15


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BluntyMcCrow2
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:20
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QUOTE (bourneagain @ Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:48) *
spanner in the works...

My relative informed me when I was added to the UK insurance policy, he ticked the box that declared amongst other facts that I was a UK resident.
Sending the form back with my foreign residence address implies I am not a UK resident and therefore the insurance company should have been informed / insurance void.

Q1. Can the met request this information from the insurance company to ascertain if the policy was valid? i.e ask the for the policy details to figure out if the fact I live abroad was declared
Q2. IF yes, I suspect they would inform the insurance company who in turn would invalidate the policy going forward. Can the met at this point conclude the policy was not valid and therefore make the RK responsible?

Essentially what I am asking is how deep does the met dig in matters where a foreign driver is involved..



Q1) Yes they can request via a number of routes (direct from the insurers or via the MIB)
Q2) The insurance company will need to know why the Met are asking for the info (they can’t just request it with a reason - this may cause the insurers to ask the policy holder additional questions when they see why the information has been requested).

How deep will they dig? Only the Met can answer this.
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TMC Towcester
post Tue, 14 Sep 2021 - 11:36
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As above, only the Met can sayfor sure, but certainly if you've provided an overseas 'service' address the ref flag will be raised. I suspect you weren't insured, particularly if you were added to a policy as a UK resident (misrepresentation).

The usual advice here is take the points and pay the fine promptly and 'politely' and most of the time 'other matters' don't surface.
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roythebus
post Wed, 15 Sep 2021 - 22:40
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Did your UK licence expire before or after the speeding incident? It my be that your application for a new licence has been delayed by the DVLA. If you haven't already sent it, I'd suggest you do ASAP, unless of course you also have a foreign licence you can use for driving abroad and here. smile.gif
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The Rookie
post Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 04:53
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Wed, 15 Sep 2021 - 23:40) *
Did your UK licence expire before or after the speeding incident? I

It’s not expired……


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roythebus
post Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 22:38
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See post 1, this is what made me ask:

"The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter."

Was the offence before the pandemic shut down the world?
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andy_foster
post Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 22:44
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 23:38) *
Was the offence before the pandemic shut down the world?


If it was it would have timed out about a year ago.


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The Rookie
post Fri, 17 Sep 2021 - 05:00
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QUOTE (roythebus @ Thu, 16 Sep 2021 - 23:38) *
"The issue I face is my license had expired during the pandemic and I had not realised this until it came to this letter."

And if you read the responses below that it’s abundantly clear this was discussed and it hadn’t expired at all.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

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bourneagain
post Mon, 20 Sep 2021 - 09:02
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thank you all, will go back with foreign address and UK license. will take the hit quietly
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