[NIP Wizard] NIP, unsure of driver, with photo evidence of rear of car Options

[cm33]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - November 2019
Date of the NIP: - 7 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 10 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A689 Newton Bewley, Hartlepool, united kingdom
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Not known
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 4
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - After receiving a NIP I responded requesting photographic evidence

I have photo evidence of my car speeding
The photos are of the rear of the car using a Laserwitness Lite
69mph (in a 50) D377f and D408f
The road is a duel carriageway, which is 70mph, dropping to 50mph through a built up area then increasing to 70mph again... not being from the area I missed the drop in speed altogether

Me and my wife are both named drivers on the policy, any one of us could have been driving

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Thu, 28 Nov 2019 22:15:16 +0000

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[morrisman]

From your words "I missed the drop in speed altogether" and "Me and my wife are both named drivers on the policy, any one of us could have been driving" seems a bit odd

[Jlc]

If you do know who was driving and maintain you do not then you’ll have a visit to court to try and convince the bench. Failure will see 6 points and a bill close to £1k.

It’s a fixed penalty offence (3 points £100).

If you genuinely do not know then start using reasonable diligence to identify them as this is the basis of a defence.

[cm33]

If you do know who was driving and maintain you do not then you’ll have a visit to court to try and convince the bench. Failure will see 6 points and a bill close to £1k.

It’s a fixed penalty offence (3 points £100).

If you genuinely do not know then start using reasonable diligence to identify them as this is the basis of a defence.

Thank you for the advice... what makes you so sure it is going to be 3pts and £100?
I have researched this and 69mph in a 50 zone appears to be more along the lines of 4-6pts and up to £1,000 - this is the huge concern irrespective of who was driving.

From your words "I missed the drop in speed altogether" and "Me and my wife are both named drivers on the policy, any one of us could have been driving" seems a bit odd

Excellent point
It was from me Google mapping it and seeing how either of us could have possible been exceeding the limit to that extent, out of character, and shocked us both... I missed it when zooming along Google Street view first time around too...

[Logician]

I have researched this and 69mph in a 50 zone appears to be more along the lines of 4-6pts and up to £1,000 - this is the huge concern irrespective of who was driving.

It would be if it were to be sentenced in court, but up to 75 in a 50 limit you are very likely to be offered a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points. As you do not doubt the speed and accept you were driving, the thing to do is to accept that offer and this will go nowhere near a court.

[southpaw82]

Are you reading sentencing guidelines that only apply if you go to court?

[Jlc]

I have researched this and 69mph in a 50 zone appears to be more along the lines of 4-6pts and up to £1,000 - this is the huge concern irrespective of who was driving.

We’re a little bit ahead of you in the research stakes.

[cm33]

I have researched this and 69mph in a 50 zone appears to be more along the lines of 4-6pts and up to £1,000 - this is the huge concern irrespective of who was driving.

It would be if it were to be sentenced in court, but up to 75 in a 50 limit you are very likely to be offered a fixed penalty of £100 + 3 points. As you do not doubt the speed and accept you were driving, the thing to do is to accept that offer and this will go nowhere near a court.

Hi, I cannot see guidance to this effect... it all seems to stipulate that this is a Band B offence, whereby a Band A would be 3pts and COFP (<65mph)
So although it was on a dual carriage way, it was a 50mph dual carriageway (not Nat. speed limit), therefore I can't help but assume it's a band B offence

Sorry if I'm being stupid...

[Logician]

You are not being stupid, you just do not know where to look, it is not in court sentencing guidelines, it was set out by ACPO and adopted by the successor organisation, The National Police Chiefs Council, and is in THIS document, in the paragraph headed GUIDANCE. So for a 50mph limit, enforcement starts at 57mph with a fixed penalty, and a summons is appropriate at 76mph. So your speed of 69mph falls below the level for a summons, which is how court proceedings were started (nowadays they are started with a requisition to appear in court). For completeness, a speed awareness course might be offered for speeds between 57 and 75, provided the driver has not previously done a course for an offence within the preceding three years. Note that this is guidance only but Police Forces invariably follow it.

[Jlc]

Indeed, the recent press coverage of this has confused many. But the usual tolerances for fixed penalties remain - and you are within that.

Now you just need to remember who was driving...

[thisisntme]

You are not being stupid, you just do not know where to look, it is not in court sentencing guidelines, it was set out by ACPO and adopted by the successor organisation, The National Police Chiefs Council, and is in THIS document, in the paragraph headed GUIDANCE. So for a 50mph limit, enforcement starts at 57mph with a fixed penalty, and a summons is appropriate at 76mph. So your speed of 69mph falls below the level for a summons, which is how court proceedings were started (nowadays they are started with a requisition to appear in court). For completeness, a speed awareness course might be offered for speeds between 57 and 75, provided the driver has not previously done a course for an offence within the preceding three years. Note that this is guidance only but Police Forces invariably follow it.

(Cough) it's between 57 and 65 isn't it? Easy typo to make

[The Rookie]

It's actually 57 to 64, I think he got confused with the FPN band which IS 57 to 75. Courses not being in that guidance.

[Logician]

Yes, 57 to 64.