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Invalid EuroCarParks - Sainsburys Ilford Charge
misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:40
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New this forum, so apologies for any mistakes!

Notice to keeper served by Euro Car Parks for overstaying stay in Sainsburys Ilford which driver feels is invalid.

The Sainsburys car park allows free 90 minute stay and also utilises the use of Horizon Parking for parking on the site.

On the day, driver entered the car park and stayed initially stayed for 90 mins (which is free) after the 90 mins were up (@15:29), driver booked additional time using the horizion parking site which started the parking session from 15:30 until the next day.
Since driver paid for parking after the 90 mins were up, Euro Car Parks have still issued a NTK?

Below is the image of the NTK alongside the receipt of paying for additional parking on site

NTK+Horizon park Reciept

Signage In the car park:

What is the best way to appeal this? Haven't had much luck with EuroCarParks in the past or even POPLA.

This post has been edited by misterta849: Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 11:05
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post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:40
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:45
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ECP and Horizon are 2 totally different parking companies?


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:47
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It's a Notice to Keeper (as it says on it in BIG letters), there is no Notice to Owner in private parking, not least as they don't know who the owner is and have no way to find out.

As in every other private parking thread NEVER give away driver ID, You as Keeper will deal with the matter, tell us what 'the driver' did with no I, we, they, he or even the dog.

Not familiar with 'horizon parking' as a means of getting extra time at an ECP/Sainsbury's car park, can you explain how the driver did that?



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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:04
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:47) *
It's a Notice to Keeper (as it says on it in BIG letters), there is no Notice to Owner in private parking, not least as they don't know who the owner is and have no way to find out.

As in every other private parking thread NEVER give away driver ID, You as Keeper will deal with the matter, tell us what 'the driver' did with no I, we, they, he or even the dog.

Not familiar with 'horizon parking' as a means of getting extra time at an ECP/Sainsbury's car park, can you explain how the driver did that?


Thanks, post edited to say notice to keeper and not owner.

Horizion Parking provide drivers the ability to park for longer in the Sainsburys car park by paying on an hourly or even a monthly basis, they have this service at many retail car parks in the locality.
In the same car park, ECP control the car park and allow a 90 mins stay.
In this instance, the driver utilised the free 90 Mins stay from ECP which expired at 15:29 and thereafter paid for parking on the car park via Horizion Spaces starting at 15:30 using the Horizon Parking spaces website. The car space booking was successful and it generated a booking confirmation which is in the OP.

This post has been edited by misterta849: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:06
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DWMB2
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:06
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QUOTE (misterta849 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:04) *
Thanks, post edited to say notice to keeper and not owner.

But not edited to hide who was driving.


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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:08
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:47) *
As in every other private parking thread NEVER give away driver ID, You as Keeper will deal with the matter, tell us what 'the driver' did with no I, we, they, he or even the dog.

This is the edit needed….

So you had a contract with Horizon to park, contact them and tell them to sort it out.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:10


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:25
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:08) *
QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:47) *
As in every other private parking thread NEVER give away driver ID, You as Keeper will deal with the matter, tell us what 'the driver' did with no I, we, they, he or even the dog.

This is the edit needed….

So you had a contract with Horizon to park, contact them and tell them to sort it out.


Edited, (hopefully correct this time).

Driver has contacted Horizion and they have responded nothing they can do as they are not the ones who issued the NtK.
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:33
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As ever. Show us the signs.
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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:37
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QUOTE (misterta849 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:25) *
Driver has contacted Horizion and they have responded nothing they can do as they are not the ones who issued the NtK.

As you paid them for the parking they should most certainly be ensuring you get what you paid for and not have to pay again for the same service, don't let them off the liabilities that easily? Did you pay them the £70 listed n that link? Even ECP only charge £40 for parking there!

Do the signs at the site mention horizon at all?


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:39
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Ok, it's an unusual arrangement - but how do ECP know when you've paid Horizon? I can't see ECP capitulating easily.

Would be good to see the signage and whether it only applies to certain parts of the car park.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:49
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:33) *
As ever. Show us the signs.


Unfortunately street view doesn't show images of the car park
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DWMB2
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:50
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QUOTE (misterta849 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:49) *
QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:33) *
As ever. Show us the signs.


Unfortunately street view doesn't show images of the car park

In which case you'll have to go and take some.


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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:51
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QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:37) *
QUOTE (misterta849 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:25) *
Driver has contacted Horizion and they have responded nothing they can do as they are not the ones who issued the NtK.

As you paid them for the parking they should most certainly be ensuring you get what you paid for and not have to pay again for the same service, don't let them off the liabilities that easily? Did you pay them the £70 listed n that link? Even ECP only charge £40 for parking there!

Do the signs at the site mention horizon at all?


Agreed! Will have to attempt again with Horizon.

The £70 is if you want to park there for the whole month
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:11
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I think contacting Horizon will be fruitless at this stage.

You need to let ECP know that you have paid for parking. (But you need to certain of your position)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:15
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:11) *
I think contacting Horizon will be fruitless at this stage.

You need to let ECP know that you have paid for parking. (But you need to certain of your position)


They're proving unhelpful at this stage, but another email has been sent asking for clarification of what service they provided and if it has any restrictions.

Is it just the signage that needs to be reviewed to become certain in appealing to ECP?
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Sheffield Dave
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:17
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It would be extremely unusual for two different car parking operators to both provide access to the same car park. I would suspect that either there are two parks (there seems to be both a multi-story/roof park and a ground park - perhaps these are separate?). Either that, or management of the park changed recently (e.g. from Horizon to Euro) but Horizon haven't removed it from their app yet, or something like that.

In any case, if ECP now manage the car park (with their signs all about), and unless their signs (or at least someone's sign possibly) say to contact horizon to pay for an extension, then ECP can argue that its not their problem if you pay some random stranger in a failed attempt to extend the stay.
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:20
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You will have to contact ECP regardless. Knowing what the situation is on the ground would be helpful - either to confirm you're on solid ground (or not).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:33
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QUOTE (Sheffield Dave @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:17) *
It would be extremely unusual for two different car parking operators to both provide access to the same car park. I would suspect that either there are two parks (there seems to be both a multi-story/roof park and a ground park - perhaps these are separate?). Either that, or management of the park changed recently (e.g. from Horizon to Euro) but Horizon haven't removed it from their app yet, or something like that.

In any case, if ECP now manage the car park (with their signs all about), and unless their signs (or at least someone's sign possibly) say to contact horizon to pay for an extension, then ECP can argue that its not their problem if you pay some random stranger in a failed attempt to extend the stay.


Your first assumption maybe valid, as there is a multi story and a ground floor car park. It maybe that the multi-story is managed by Horizion and ground floor by ECP.

If this was the case, are there any grounds of appeal?
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Jlc
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:36
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QUOTE (misterta849 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 15:33) *
If this was the case, are there any grounds of appeal?

All depends on the signage...


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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misterta849
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 16:07
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 14:20) *
You will have to contact ECP regardless. Knowing what the situation is on the ground would be helpful - either to confirm you're on solid ground (or not).


Sorry for the multiple questions. When you say contact ECP, do you mean an appeal or send a general enquiry? If the latter, worried there will be no response before the appeal period ends.
Thanks
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