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PCN - Islington - Contravention 19 - Drayton Park - Zone G
cc120
post Thu, 2 Feb 2023 - 14:26
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I will be posting up all necessary documents but wonder if you can advise meanwhile as I will probably get another PCN Contravention 19 again tomorrow.

I hadn't been out to my car for a few days. Was alarmed to see two PCN's on the windscreen. Thought might be due to parking permit expiration but that is paid up, up to 30 June 2023.

Contravention 19 - Parked in a residents’ or shared use parking place or zone either displaying an invalid permit or voucher or pay and display ticket, or after the expiry of paid for time

I was parked next to a disabled parking space but did not encroach at all. Therefore I'm assuming that the PCN was due to my Event Day Pass, which I just noticed today had become wet from condensation or possibly a leak and all that is visible is my registration number and the colour at the sides of the permit.

Unfortunately, there are no available images online for either PCN's.

Am I correct in thinking that I won't have to pay for more than 1 PCN as any further will be for the same issue?

1 PCN FRONT

1 PCN BACK

2 PCN FRONT

2 PCN BACK

Photos for 1st PCN 01/02/2023

1A

2A

Photos for 2nd PCN 02/02/2023

1bb

2bb

There are approx 5 further images for each PCN, but these are the only ones that seem relevant to me.



This post has been edited by cc120: Fri, 3 Feb 2023 - 02:41
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post Thu, 2 Feb 2023 - 14:26
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cc120
post Mon, 6 Feb 2023 - 16:18
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 20:39) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 20:32) *
They may not check - I would make a polite plea for discretion for both and be a bit vague about why the permit wasn't renewed.

Thank you stamfordman.

Could I have some wording for the appeal, please, including that legally I only am required to pay one of the PCN's?

Islington Council does state:
'It is the councils intention to send an email or letter reminder, however, Islington cannot guarantee that a reminder will reach the permit holder. Therefore it is the responsibility of the permit holder to renew your Permit. Why not add it to your smart phone calendar now.'
So eg: Re Parking Permit nos xxxx and xxxx

Having not received the customary parking permit renewal reminder in December 2022, and believing my parking permit was valid until June 2023, I inadvertently overlooked the renewal. I would appreciate it if you would consider canceling both PCNs.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration readable.
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Gert
post Mon, 6 Feb 2023 - 19:13
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Hearing that Islington changed their permit system last week. No harm telling them that you could not renew your permit. Wouldn't tell them you forgot now.
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cc120
post Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 11:41
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Mon, 6 Feb 2023 - 16:18) *
QUOTE (cc120 @ Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 20:39) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sat, 4 Feb 2023 - 20:32) *
They may not check - I would make a polite plea for discretion for both and be a bit vague about why the permit wasn't renewed.

Thank you stamfordman.

Could I have some wording for the appeal, please, including that legally I only am required to pay one of the PCN's?

Islington Council does state:
'It is the councils intention to send an email or letter reminder, however, Islington cannot guarantee that a reminder will reach the permit holder. Therefore it is the responsibility of the permit holder to renew your Permit. Why not add it to your smart phone calendar now.'
So eg: Re Parking Permit nos xxxx and xxxx

Having not received the customary parking permit renewal reminder in December 2022, and believing my parking permit was valid until June 2023, I inadvertently overlooked the renewal. I would appreciate it if you would consider canceling both PCNs.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration readable.

Hi Stamforman, what do you think of the appeal above?

QUOTE (Gert @ Mon, 6 Feb 2023 - 19:13) *
Hearing that Islington changed their permit system last week. No harm telling them that you could not renew your permit. Wouldn't tell them you forgot now.

Thank you Gert. Unfortunately, I was supposed to renew before 31 December 2022.
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stamfordman
post Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:03
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Well you aren't telling the truth so I would change it a bit. Send for each one. I presume you now have a permit.

-----------------


I am asking for your kind discretion on PCNs xxxxx and xxxx as I was not aware of receiving the customary parking permit renewal reminder and believed my parking permit was valid until June 2023. I inadvertently overlooked the renewal and I would appreciate it if you would consider cancelling both PCNs.

I have renewed the permit.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration was readable.

This post has been edited by stamfordman: Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:03
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cc120
post Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:19
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:03) *
Well you aren't telling the truth so I would change it a bit. Send for each one. I presume you now have a permit.

-----------------


I am asking for your kind discretion on PCNs xxxxx and xxxx as I was not aware of receiving the customary parking permit renewal reminder and believed my parking permit was valid until June 2023. I inadvertently overlooked the renewal and I would appreciate it if you would consider cancelling both PCNs.

I have renewed the permit.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration was readable.

Thank you stamfordman. If this appeal is unsuccessful, can I then appeal again to say I paid for first PCN, but as the car didn't move from the exact spot of the time of the 1st PCN to the second PCN, therefore the same contravention, the second is null and void.
?
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stamfordman
post Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:37
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:19) *
If this appeal is unsuccessful, can I then appeal again to say I paid for first PCN, but as the car didn't move from the exact spot of the time of the 1st PCN to the second PCN, therefore the same contravention, the second is null and void.


You need to send it for both PCNs - the likelihood is they may cancel the second and uphold the first, which may be the best you can hope for.

It is not a continuous contravention as it would be say on a double yellow line so you can't argue for that as such.

I have added a line.

----------

I am asking for your kind discretion on PCNs xxxxx and xxxx as I was not aware of receiving the customary parking permit renewal reminder and believed my parking permit was valid until June 2023. I inadvertently overlooked the renewal and I would appreciate it if you would consider cancelling both PCNs.

Please note that the second PCN was issued just one day after the first and before I had a chance to attend to the car.

I have renewed the permit.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration was readable.
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cc120
post Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:45
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:37) *
QUOTE (cc120 @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:19) *
If this appeal is unsuccessful, can I then appeal again to say I paid for first PCN, but as the car didn't move from the exact spot of the time of the 1st PCN to the second PCN, therefore the same contravention, the second is null and void.


You need to send it for both PCNs - the likelihood is they may cancel the second and uphold the first, which may be the best you can hope for.

It is not a continuous contravention as it would be say on a double yellow line so you can't argue for that as such.

I have added a line.

----------

I am asking for your kind discretion on PCNs xxxxx and xxxx as I was not aware of receiving the customary parking permit renewal reminder and believed my parking permit was valid until June 2023. I inadvertently overlooked the renewal and I would appreciate it if you would consider canceling both PCNs.

Please note that the second PCN was issued just one day after the first and before I had a chance to attend to the car.

I have renewed the permit.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration was readable.

Thank you stamfordman. I will go with that and cross my fingers.

So I will send 2 email appeals, one stating PCN appeal for both numbers, then another with the numbers switched.
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cc120
post Sat, 11 Feb 2023 - 07:38
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:45) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:37) *
QUOTE (cc120 @ Thu, 9 Feb 2023 - 13:19) *
If this appeal is unsuccessful, can I then appeal again to say I paid for first PCN, but as the car didn't move from the exact spot of the time of the 1st PCN to the second PCN, therefore the same contravention, the second is null and void.


You need to send it for both PCNs - the likelihood is they may cancel the second and uphold the first, which may be the best you can hope for.

It is not a continuous contravention as it would be say on a double yellow line so you can't argue for that as such.

I have added a line.

----------

I am asking for your kind discretion on PCNs xxxxx and xxxx as I was not aware of receiving the customary parking permit renewal reminder and believed my parking permit was valid until June 2023. I inadvertently overlooked the renewal and I would appreciate it if you would consider canceling both PCNs.

Please note that the second PCN was issued just one day after the first and before I had a chance to attend to the car.

I have renewed the permit.

In addition, I have applied for a replacement Events Day Restricted pass disc as condensation caused mine to become illegible. Only my vehicle registration was readable.

Thank you stamfordman. I will go with that and cross my fingers.

So I will send 2 email appeals, one stating PCN appeal for both numbers, then another with the numbers switched.

I sent the two emails to islingtonparking@civica-rm.co.uk, but did not receive automatic notification of receipt from Islington as is customary. Perhaps due to their system overhaul. Tempted to resend?
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Schofeldt
post Sun, 12 Feb 2023 - 10:22
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Loren.Bill@islington.gov.uk <Loren.Bill@islington.gov.uk> 020 7527 2000

This post has been edited by Schofeldt: Sun, 12 Feb 2023 - 10:25


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It's all in the wrist.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 12 Feb 2023 - 16:35
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Sat, 11 Feb 2023 - 07:38) *
I sent the two emails to islingtonparking@civica-rm.co.uk, but did not receive automatic notification of receipt from Islington as is customary. Perhaps due to their system overhaul. Tempted to resend?


As long as it went in a method and to an address specified on the PCN then you should be OK. The worst that can happen is that they send notice to owners but they will have to backtrack on the discount at least.

Get the V5C logbook out and check the address is correct.

Rather than send the challenges again you can send a test message and see if something comes back. Also check spam folder.
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stamfordman
post Mon, 13 Feb 2023 - 10:47
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OK so see the last post in this thread - I would file them on the website.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=147747
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cc120
post Fri, 10 Mar 2023 - 15:38
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 13 Feb 2023 - 10:47) *
OK so see the last post in this thread - I would file them on the website.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=147747

Hi stamfordman, I didn't see you're last message but thankfully I did take the precaution of posting via the website too.

I have just received a reply:

'The Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) were issued because the vehicle was parked in a
residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly
displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place
where required, or without payment of the parking charge.
You state that you did not receive a permit renewal reminder and therefore was unaware that
your permit had in fact run out. Please note that it is not an obligatory requirement that
reminder correspondence is sent and although we endeavour to remind our residents when
a renewal is required, it is ultimately the responsibility of the driver to ensure they have valid
documentation to exempt them from the parking restrictions in place.
Whilst I am satisfied that the contraventions occurred, I have cancelled them for you on this
occasion. This has been done on a discretional basis. Further PCNs issued for similar
circumstances may be enforced, therefore I would advise you to make a separate note of
your current permit's expiry date (5 May 2023) to avoid further PCNs being issued.
As the penalty charges have now been cancelled, you do not need to take any further action
and there is no need to reply to this correspondence.'
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cc120
post Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 20:27
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QUOTE (cc120 @ Fri, 10 Mar 2023 - 15:38) *
QUOTE (stamfordman @ Mon, 13 Feb 2023 - 10:47) *
OK so see the last post in this thread - I would file them on the website.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=147747

Hi stamfordman, I didn't see you're last message but thankfully I did take the precaution of posting via the website too.

I have just received a reply:

'The Penalty Charge Notices (PCNs) were issued because the vehicle was parked in a
residents' or shared use parking place or zone without a valid virtual permit or clearly
displaying a valid physical permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place
where required, or without payment of the parking charge.
You state that you did not receive a permit renewal reminder and therefore was unaware that
your permit had in fact run out. Please note that it is not an obligatory requirement that
reminder correspondence is sent and although we endeavour to remind our residents when
a renewal is required, it is ultimately the responsibility of the driver to ensure they have valid
documentation to exempt them from the parking restrictions in place.
Whilst I am satisfied that the contraventions occurred, I have cancelled them for you on this
occasion. This has been done on a discretional basis. Further PCNs issued for similar
circumstances may be enforced, therefore I would advise you to make a separate note of
your current permit's expiry date (5 May 2023) to avoid further PCNs being issued.
As the penalty charges have now been cancelled, you do not need to take any further action
and there is no need to reply to this correspondence.'


Hi stamfordman, I hope you are well?

Well, as you can see what you suggested did the job, thank you so much.

Without your help I wouldn't be surprised if I had to pay for BOTH PCN's. So I would have been grateful to have dodged one, so to have dodged both is wonderful.
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stamfordman
post Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 20:59
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That's great - I think you were rather lucky but Islington has been having issues with its permit reminders so I think we successfully sowed the seed of doubt to your advantage with the wording.
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cc120
post Tue, 14 Mar 2023 - 06:32
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Sun, 12 Mar 2023 - 20:59) *
That's great - I think you were rather lucky but Islington has been having issues with its permit reminders so I think we successfully sowed the seed of doubt to your advantage with the wording.

Perhaps they did give me the benefit of the doubt, however Islington Council does state:
'It is the councils intention to send an email or letter reminder, however, Islington cannot guarantee that a reminder will reach the permit holder. Therefore it is the responsibility of the permit holder to renew your Permit. Why not add it to your smart phone calendar now.'

Therefore, I was expecting the worst.

Thank you again for all your support and logic through all my confusing processing and your encouragement to keep going and not just pay up.
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