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DCBL Final Notice Of Recovery Letter
snowman816
post Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 16:07
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Hi All

I have today picked up some letters from previous address use to reside at where vehicle in question was registered to.

There are some final recovery letters for unpaid parking charges from November 2017, I was not the driver of the vehicle at that time although registered keeper. Furthermore I recall the vehicle was parked overnight outside a car garage whilst undergoing works where the ticket has been given.

Is it worth making contact with DCBL to provide them with these details or would it be worthless to do so now? The letters are dated January 2021
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post Tue, 6 Apr 2021 - 16:07
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hcandersen
post Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 21:38
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My address changed in 2016 and I informed the Creditor that I had moved house in writing on 20/05/2021 when I requested the Service access request providing my updated address for correspondence


You have a copy?

As the 'relevant obligation' arose in 2017 why were your DVLA keeper details not accurate if you moved in 2016?

The doctrine of clean hands would seem to apply here i.e. you failed to update your DVLA details in a timely manner as required by law. In fact when did you update your V5C?
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 23:01
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Why do you keep making para 2 cease to have effect, but then replace it with, in effect, para 2?

Agreed on dates. Disagree on clean hands; if the claim form was filed AFTER they knew of your new address, then you're not in fault.

Yes, of course you supply evidence, and they are led by the witness statement. So for example, when you state you told them of your new address, you exhibit the letter showing new address, your proof of posting the letter, etc. rinse and repeat.
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snowman816
post Tue, 16 Nov 2021 - 15:42
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 15 Nov 2021 - 23:01) *
Why do you keep making para 2 cease to have effect, but then replace it with, in effect, para 2?

Agreed on dates. Disagree on clean hands; if the claim form was filed AFTER they knew of your new address, then you're not in fault.

Yes, of course you supply evidence, and they are led by the witness statement. So for example, when you state you told them of your new address, you exhibit the letter showing new address, your proof of posting the letter, etc. rinse and repeat.



Hi thank you for your response, they were made aware at the time the SAR was requested of the new service address, should I just keep it to the facts around this and display the letter (proof of postage I have misplaced unfortunately)
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 16 Nov 2021 - 15:58
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Was the sar requested pre claim filing? If yes, the obviously that's ok.
Just state when you posted it. Leave it to them to question if you did or not.
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snowman816
post Wed, 17 Nov 2021 - 19:59
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 16 Nov 2021 - 15:58) *
Was the sar requested pre claim filing? If yes, the obviously that's ok.
Just state when you posted it. Leave it to them to question if you did or not.



Thank you, yes it was pre claiming it was requested. I will mention that as part of witness statement and send it all tomorrow

Should I call the court first to pay or send it first? Is it usually ok to email all the forms?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 09:31
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Show us your WS
Show us your new consent order.
You file them pay. That way they know which n244 it applies to
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snowman816
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 11:54
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Order

1. The default judgment dated 09/09/2021 be set aside.

2. The Claimant to pay the Defendant’s costs of this application to the sum of £255

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4 pm on 23/11/2021 paragraph 2 shall have effect and the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 and the claim shall be struck out.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm on 30/11/2021.

5. Should the Claimant discontinue the Claim after the CCJ is set aside, the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 plus the Defendant's costs for attending the hearing in any event.

6. That all enforcement be put on hold pending the outcome of the application.
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snowman816
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 12:30
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1. I make this Witness Statement in support of the application for an order that the judgment in this case (Claim No H6KF7A0YJudgment dated 09/09/2021) be set aside.

2. I learnt of the existence of this claim on the 02/11/2021 when I was forwarded a letter from the Claimant requesting payment of the judgment detailed in paragraph 1.

3. I informed the Creditor that I had moved house in writing on 20/05/2021 when I requested the Service access request providing my updated address for correspondence

4. Since then I received no correspondence to the updated address provided to the claimant and thus was unaware of the claim and subsequent judgement issued

5: On 04/11/2021 I made a written request to the Claimants Solicitors inviting them to consent to set aside the judgment due to the reasons in paragraph 4.

6. The Claimant did not respond to my request.

7. I therefore respectfully request that the Court sets aside the judgment in this claim and allows 14 days for me to submit my defence.

Statement of Truth

I, YOUR NAME, the Defendant, believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true.

Signed: ________________________________

Dated: ________________________________

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The Rookie
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:13
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Requested a subject access request, not service access request….


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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:20
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You've not updated the consent order

Why

Why

WHY Do you make para 2 cease to have effect, when para two is about paying you your set aside fee of £275 (I think it is now - obviously you check this on the gov website, as of course it changes every so often) that you then keep making them pay?! What is the PURPOSE of doing that?

WS
You still have t exhibited your evidence in your WS, as I to,d you to do. When you state you told them your address for service on x date, prove. It. At least show a copy of the letter!

Make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the claimant filed the claim AFTER KNOWING YOUR NEW ADDRESS FOR SERVICE, yet still filed to the old address. This is a fact. State it. If you don't, you're hoping the judge picks up on this. Why leave it to chance? Be. Explicit.

Your WS is in support of your n244, so I would absolutely ensure that you make reference to the CPR sections that allow set aside. Do you know them off by heart now? 13.2 and 13.3. USE. BOTH. lack of good servuce is 13.2


Consent order again
For example, para 3 means they're paying you £255 twice potentially. Once at para 2, once at para 3. Surely the point of para three, assuming para 2 stands (it's a draft, it makes sense NOW), is to strike out the claim if they don't serve a claim form? If so, then that's all that you say. You don't repeat, because that has an additive effect.

ALL DATES REPLACE WITH dd/mm/yyyy for obvious reasons. You don't know the date of hearing yet, so how can you possibly fix dates?!

5 you should estimate costs. Half a days lost leave or lost pay, capped at £95. And, again, for some reason they're paying the same amount again....







You also need to include in the consent order time to file a witness statement and exhibits. Most courts, post set aside, FORGET THIS. SO, don't let that happen. State you will file your WS at least 14 days before the hearing, and the claimant at least 28 days before. That way yiu can see what lies they come up with.l.
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snowman816
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 16:37
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 13:20) *
You've not updated the consent order

Why

Why

WHY Do you make para 2 cease to have effect, when para two is about paying you your set aside fee of £275 (I think it is now - obviously you check this on the gov website, as of course it changes every so often) that you then keep making them pay?! What is the PURPOSE of doing that?

WS
You still have t exhibited your evidence in your WS, as I to,d you to do. When you state you told them your address for service on x date, prove. It. At least show a copy of the letter!

Make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the claimant filed the claim AFTER KNOWING YOUR NEW ADDRESS FOR SERVICE, yet still filed to the old address. This is a fact. State it. If you don't, you're hoping the judge picks up on this. Why leave it to chance? Be. Explicit.

Your WS is in support of your n244, so I would absolutely ensure that you make reference to the CPR sections that allow set aside. Do you know them off by heart now? 13.2 and 13.3. USE. BOTH. lack of good servuce is 13.2


Consent order again
For example, para 3 means they're paying you £255 twice potentially. Once at para 2, once at para 3. Surely the point of para three, assuming para 2 stands (it's a draft, it makes sense NOW), is to strike out the claim if they don't serve a claim form? If so, then that's all that you say. You don't repeat, because that has an additive effect.

ALL DATES REPLACE WITH dd/mm/yyyy for obvious reasons. You don't know the date of hearing yet, so how can you possibly fix dates?!

5 you should estimate costs. Half a days lost leave or lost pay, capped at £95. And, again, for some reason they're paying the same amount again....







You also need to include in the consent order time to file a witness statement and exhibits. Most courts, post set aside, FORGET THIS. SO, don't let that happen. State you will file your WS at least 14 days before the hearing, and the claimant at least 28 days before. That way yiu can see what lies they come up with.l.



Thank you for your response,

Para 2 states for them to pay my costs, do you mean this should then therefore not mention to cease effect but just to pay them?

Making reference to the CPR sections do you mean state these on the WS and how they apply to the case

When providing the court with the documents, would the WS and exhibits not be submitted with the CO?

Thank you, hopefully I can get it all together correctly and submitted tomorrow
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 18:44
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What I mean is - the order is your idealised view of what the court Orders as a result of your set aside hearing.
Obviously it is NOT a consent order. They haven't consented! It's a draft Order. So of course para 2 doesn't cease. You've copied and pasted withiut understanding.

So, you want
- case set aside
- your fee to get the set aside hearing paid back regardless.
- them to serve a claim form on you, and if you don't get a claim form within time, the claim is to be struck out without further notice,
- for you to be given time to file and serve* a defence if they do serve a claim form
- for you BOTH to file and serve witness statements, theirs no less than 28 days before, yours no less than 14 days before a hearing date to be decided by the courts

I mean, you could be cheeky and ask the court to strike the claim out regardless as it has no merit, but there is little chance of that, so being realistic is ok
*file with the court, serve on the claimant. As you know, from reading the MSE forum newbies thread on this topic, this is standard that you have two copies you send out.


Yes, both on the n244 where you specifically state the precise reasons, plural,,why you deserve a set aside AND in your WS you MUST
MUST
MUST
state the precise CPR you file under - BOTH - and why they apply

For 13.3,any other good reason, you file a template defence. The one in the newbies thread. This shows you have a good chance to defend.

Exhibits - the n244, witness statement, draft order AND exhibits are all filed all at the same time. This is so nothing goes missing.

For cpr 13.2 you are making the point that the claim form was never served. This means yiu get an automatic set aside. Worse - as I'm sure I to,d you - when The sols filed the claim they had to state the address eas good. Expect they knew it wasn't.

Because the form was never served, the time for you to defend never started (14 days from date of service)

Because the time never started, the time never expired.

If the time hasn't expired, they weren't entitled to ask for default judgement.
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snowman816
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 20:09
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That is so helpful thank you for taking the time to explain it.

So my current para 2 on draft order effectively doesn't make sense and needs amending

Include 13.2 and 13.3 in both the evidence box of the n244 and as part of my WS

This then needs to be filed to the court and then payment is made.

IF they then file a claim form, I use the time allocated to put together my defence (using the template for reference in putting this together)

Hopefully that Is right and i should move to get this across to courts?
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 20:53
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No, para 2 is fine. As I keep bloody telling you, it's the lines after, where for bizarre reasons you make para 2 cease to have effect. Show me your new order, with the EXACT flow I've laid out for you.

Your summary is inaccurate. I told you precisely what to include. Reread.
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snowman816
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 14:35
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Thu, 18 Nov 2021 - 20:53) *
No, para 2 is fine. As I keep bloody telling you, it's the lines after, where for bizarre reasons you make para 2 cease to have effect. Show me your new order, with the EXACT flow I've laid out for you.

Your summary is inaccurate. I told you precisely what to include. Reread.



Draft order attached

1. The default judgment dated 09/09/2021 be set aside.

2. The Claimant to pay the Defendant’s costs of this application to the sum of £255

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by 4 pm on 26/11/2021 the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 and the claim shall be struck out.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by 4pm on 30/12/2021.

5. Should the Claimant discontinue the Claim after the CCJ is set aside, the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily assessed at £255 plus the Defendant's costs for attending the hearing in any event (£95)

6. That all enforcement be put on hold pending the outcome of the application.
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 15:51
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It's £275, as I told you! Go and check, the fees change.
Don't make me repeat myself. It's tiresome. You just need to read what's out in front and do that. Rushing just wastes everyone's time.

For further example - 3), No, the date is dd/mm/yyyy. You've got no idea when the hearing will be, yet you insist on putting dates in

Sigh. Where in para 3 did I tell you to mention the sum again. I didn't. They've ALREADY PAID YOU YOUR SET ASIDE FEE! that's para 2. Why do they have to pay this again if they don't serve a claim form?! Do you understand that this is a single list, each line isn't independent of the preceding ones?

5) No, again, remove the set aside fee. Remove the set aside hearing costs, you're never going to get them back, if yiu want them back ask at para 2, as that's the logical place to do so.

6) this doesn't appear in what I told you to write. It doesn't make sense, if you think about it. This is an order. After the outcome is known. Waaaaaay down the line.
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snowman816
post Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 17:47
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 19 Nov 2021 - 15:51) *
It's £275, as I told you! Go and check, the fees change.
Don't make me repeat myself. It's tiresome. You just need to read what's out in front and do that. Rushing just wastes everyone's time.

For further example - 3), No, the date is dd/mm/yyyy. You've got no idea when the hearing will be, yet you insist on putting dates in

Sigh. Where in para 3 did I tell you to mention the sum again. I didn't. They've ALREADY PAID YOU YOUR SET ASIDE FEE! that's para 2. Why do they have to pay this again if they don't serve a claim form?! Do you understand that this is a single list, each line isn't independent of the preceding ones?

5) No, again, remove the set aside fee. Remove the set aside hearing costs, you're never going to get them back, if yiu want them back ask at para 2, as that's the logical place to do so.

6) this doesn't appear in what I told you to write. It doesn't make sense, if you think about it. This is an order. After the outcome is known. Waaaaaay down the line.


Thank you for your help, I have made the changes but for the final point which I am still unsure what would need to be put down, should I state here the time to be given to allow for submission of the WS and exhibits?

1. The default judgment dated 09/09/2021 be set aside.

2. The Claimant to pay the Defendant’s costs of this application to the sum of £275

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on the Defendant by xx on dd/mm/yyyy

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by xx on xx/xx/xxxx.

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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 00:10
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Post 52. Bullet point 5. What does that say?

Read your new point 3 back to yourself. Slowly. Notice it now doesn't do anything? I said to remove ONE thing. Not the entire second half of the sentence.

As for dates. No. Serve claim form by date. Not "by xx on xx/xx/xxxx" as that makes no sense. Serve the claim form by dd/mm/yyyy.
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snowman816
post Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 13:03
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 00:10) *
Post 52. Bullet point 5. What does that say?

Read your new point 3 back to yourself. Slowly. Notice it now doesn't do anything? I said to remove ONE thing. Not the entire second half of the sentence.

As for dates. No. Serve claim form by date. Not "by xx on xx/xx/xxxx" as that makes no sense. Serve the claim form by dd/mm/yyyy.


Draft order attached

1. The default judgment dated dd/mm/yyyy be set aside.

2. The Claimant to pay the Defendant’s costs of this application to the sum of £275

3. Unless the Claimant serves a copy of the Claim Form on Defendant by on dd/mm/yyyy the claim shall be struck out.

4. If the Claimant serves the claim form as directed in paragraph 3 the Defendant shall file and serve a defence by on dd/mm/yyyy.

5. Should the Claimant discontinue the Claim after the CCJ is set aside, the Claimant shall pay the Defendant's costs summarily as per point 2 above

6. That all enforcement be put on hold pending the outcome of the application.

This post has been edited by snowman816: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 13:03
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 14:15
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I give up.
Read
Post
52
Bullet
5

Where is it?

Remove the part about enforcement being out on hold. I don't know why I'm having to say it again but this is AFTER the judgment is set aside so point 6 is rubbish and makes no sense.

You know the date of the judgement. Obviously you put that in
You don't know any other date. Those are left as dd/mm/yyyy

Can you please, please, please READ AND DO AS TOLD? You manage to do, at most, one thing at a time.
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