PCN Ealing – No Entry Restriction Options

[Frazzled]

Hi all,

I'm really hoping you can help. It's been a while since I was last here with a council PCN and I'm sure lots of things have changed. I think I've redacted all info but if anyone spots anything, please shout.

The RK received a PCN in The Avenue, W13 for 'Failing to comply with a no entry restriction'. This is a local road that is often travelled down and is not normally a no entry road. Apparently there were works going on so it was a temporary set up. Lots of businesses along the road also received PCNs, sometimes multiple ones! A local MP was looking into but now because of coronavirus, I can't check with the local businesses to see what's happening.

An appeal was sent on 17/12/19 and a Proof of Postage obtained. Didn't hear anything from them until 02/04/20 when a Charge Certificate arrived! I don't know know what to do for the RK. Attached is everything received and sent. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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[PASTMYBEST]

We've just received a letter and evidence has to be submitted by 7th Nov. Where to start? I can't get access to the EA's evidence pack so can't create a link. Should I scan it all in?

not yet post the letter from the tribunal

[Frazzled]

Here it is and thanks PMB.

[cp8759]

Have you been offered any opportunity for an oral hearing?

[Frazzled]

No. This is the only letter we've received and it doesn't say anything about an oral hearing.

I didn't think they could do that.

[cp8759]

I'd call the tribunal and ask about having an oral hearing if you want one. I don't think they can assume a postal hearing is acceptable to you.

[Frazzled]

Thanks cp8759. I've done this and e-mailed requesting a personal hearing.

The woman I spoke to also confirmed that I can't get online access to the evidence pack so am guessing I should start scanning docs?

Any evidence has to arrive by 7th Nov, although she said this would likely be extended due to the request but I'd rather err on the side of caution!

[PASTMYBEST]

Thanks cp8759. I've done this and e-mailed requesting a personal hearing.

The woman I spoke to also confirmed that I can't get online access to the evidence pack so am guessing I should start scanning docs?

Any evidence has to arrive by 7th Nov, although she said this would likely be extended due to the request but I'd rather err on the side of caution!

Yes scan them then create a onedrive or googledrive folder and share it here

[Frazzled]

I think I've done this properly but please shout if not.

I've created an album and uploaded every piece of paper they sent in the order they put it.

Please excuse the index tabs – I do have some questions but I'll save them for later.

https://ibb.co/album/QXgQJS

[Frazzled]

Apologies for bumping this but we don't have long (7th at the latest) to submit evidence so any advice you can offer would be gratefully received.

I'm not sure that this will be successful as I've looked at the Registers of Appeals and have seen that no one has had their appeal allowed but you never know. Resigning ourselves to paying either the full or reduced amount.

[cp8759]

Can you post the video please?

[Frazzled]

I think I managed to upload this as I couldn't host the video on imbgg.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/190979201@N08/?



This post has been edited by Frazzled: Wed, 4 Nov 2020 - 18:14

[cp8759]

Has the council supplied the tribunal with any images or video of the actual no entry sign? Also please post up the witness statement.

If there is no actual evidence about there being a no entry sign, this should be an open and shut case.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Thu, 5 Nov 2020 - 12:01

[Frazzled]

Yes, all the docs are in the link but here it is again: https://ibb.co/album/QXgQJS

Do you mean the EA's witness statement? I haven't done one, only a SD. Ihave phoned the tribunal and I now have until 11th Nov at the latest to submit any evidence.

I don't think it's going to be that straightforwardcp8759, as there have been several appeals for this location and they've all been refused.

One of the points I think may be relevant is to do with the image that the council has supplied (which isn't dated or from the day of the alleged contravention) compared against the placement of the signs from the video footage. Not sure if this is enough to create doubt or if it's too tenuous?

[cp8759]

If there is no actual evidence about there being a no entry sign, this should be an open and shut case.

Well, there is evidence of a no entry sign right here:



The signs seen in this photo match the signs in the video, so the contravention looks banged-to-rights. Not sure what else you have to go on, see what PMB says.

[Frazzled]

The first photo is the one that isn't dated and the signage certainly wasn't that clear on the day in question. There was an 'Access Only' sign but it was removed so it can't be proved unfortunately.

Also, the 'Road Ahead Closed' and yellow direction sign are both rectangular and when you view the video, I think you can see quite clearly that the signs are square. Although it doesn't prove what we're saying about the presence of an 'Access Only' sign, does it create a doubt? And does that even matter?

The second no left hand turn photo is from a different approach to the roundabout. We came straight on and there was no such sign on that approach, although i think there is supposed to be.

[PASTMYBEST]

The only hope i see is arguing that in not receiving the NoR you have been denied the opportunity to pay at the discount and then go on to outline the letter as being misleading and threatening in it's nature and that in sending it the council abase the statutory procedure laid down in the regulations

I would feel happy if you got the reduction to the discount

[cp8759]

The first photo is the one that isn't dated and the signage certainly wasn't that clear on the day in question. There was an 'Access Only' sign but it was removed so it can't be proved unfortunately.

The standard of evidence is the balance of probabilities, and the three signs in the undated photo match what can be seen in the video, so I think an adjudicator would hold that those are the signs that were there on the day. You could try and convince the adjudicator that the no entry sign wasn't there and there was some other rectangular sign instead, but IMO it would be hopeless.

[Frazzled]

Thanks PMB and cp8759 for your input. The majority of people who received PCNs for this contravention have been offered the reduced sum so hopefully, we will too.

We haven't submitted anything but will now wait for the tribunal call. I will talk about the NoR – I still find it curious that every single letter the EA sent was received apart from that one.

But I wondered if you could expand on the letter the EA sent, the one that was threatening. Hcandersen felt very strongly about this but he didn't expand at the time and said he would later. Anything you can offer would be great.

[Frazzled]

Hello and apologies for the delay in coming back to update.

The hearing went well and although the adjudicator said I had raised some valid points, the upshot is that we need to pay the reduced rate of £65, which is what we were expecting.

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who commented and gave advice along the way, I really do appreciate it.

As I said to someone earlier, hopefully I won't be back on the boards seeking advice for a while but if I am, I know I will get objective and straightforward guidance.

Thanks again!

[cp8759]

Could you give us the case number please?