Why don't people get four lane motorways Options

[notmeatloaf]

I was driving along the four lane section of the M40 this evening and everyone had assumed their normal lane discipline.

Lane 1: NML, doing a speed of my choosing over 70mph.
Lane 2: Dacia owners, and occasional other drivers who wish to drive at 60mph for some reason.
Lane 3: Nose to tail 70mph.
Lane 4: Nose to tail 75mph.

Then you get to the three lane section and most people get back to not being idiots.

Why the hell does this happen? Why do people not see they are turning a four lane motorway into a crappy two lane road?

Before I get chewed out for undertaking, I have been in lane 4 and as someone who likes to leave approaching the highway code stopping distance in front of me rather than 5 metres as seems to be standard, you just end up with people pulling in front of you constantly as well as the obligatory panic braking every 30 seconds because a butterfly flew in front of someone at the next junction.

No, much better to have my own exclusive lane.

FWIW I was stopped by an undercover car many years ago for exactly this. Explained to the officers that I thought driving in the wacky races in the outside two lanes was more dangerous. And was then sent on my way with instructions not to bother them in future. So I know there is a risk of a clip around the ear.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Fri, 20 Jul 2018 - 23:07

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[Lodesman]

I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed

I'm not starting an argument but at what speed should they be passing the trucks ?

77mph..... keep the plus 2 in reserve

But what happens is trucks are doing 55-60 (yes I know they are supposed to be limited) and overtaking head of queue is doing 65.
And then they don't pull in having overtaken the truck because there is another 50 yards ahead and with that massive queue behind they won't be able to pull out to lane 3 again !!!

Interesting viewpoint.

I thought that Pepipoo did not approve of people breaking the law much less advocating it just to facilitate the movement of cars behind.

This post has been edited by Lodesman: Fri, 27 Jul 2018 - 19:24

[rockingroadster]

I was told about this topic and having just being NIP for 81 I thought I would add my tuppence worth. The lane hoggers are a bloody joke and need the attention of police. If there are any about.

I spend hundreds of miles undertaking a-holes who cant drive correctly. I know elsewhere in the world the police clamp down on lane hoggers, pity they cant do it here

[DancingDad]

I was thinking of when two trucks are passing each other and the front car in the outside lane only drives a couple of mph faster although there is a clear road ahed

I'm not starting an argument but at what speed should they be passing the trucks ?

77mph..... keep the plus 2 in reserve

But what happens is trucks are doing 55-60 (yes I know they are supposed to be limited) and overtaking head of queue is doing 65.
And then they don't pull in having overtaken the truck because there is another 50 yards ahead and with that massive queue behind they won't be able to pull out to lane 3 again !!!

Interesting viewpoint.

I thought that Pepipoo did not approve of people breaking the law much less advocating it just to facilitate the movement of cars behind.

Interesting take on not starting an argument ?

Not advocating anything, simply a nod towards the speed that ACPO guidelines say will not be enforced.

TBH, I don't give a damn if people overtake at 65, as long as they do it sensibly.
Which all too often they don't, they wait till they are forced to overtake, then bull their way in regardless, don't try to match speed with the lane they are joining, hang around after the overtake far too long..... generally act like twonkers

[Lodesman]

DD I make nothing of it. I was only curious as to what people see as an acceptable course of action when presented with those circumstances.

[Lodesman]

I spend hundreds of miles undertaking a-holes who cant drive correctly. I know elsewhere in the world the police clamp down on lane hoggers, pity they cant do it here

Not sure about that. In the US you can drive on the freeway at any legal speed, undertaking is common and, as long as you indicate before changing lanes, the police couldn’t care less. That’s certainly been my experience anyway.
Australia and New Zealand and South Africa all permit undertaking.
In France most of the motorways are two lane and a flash of headlights serves as a reminder to move over, as is the case in Germany.
In Italy they drive as though they are taking off to strafe the beaches at Anzio.
Holland and Belgium are usually so congested that their motorways are often nose to tail anyway.😉
In my neck of the woods, normal motorway traffic is added to by 30,000+ trucks and cars daily using Dover and the Tunnel. A column of trucks, all 200 meters apart does not encourage lane one driving.

So, middle lane hogging does depend on the conditions pertaining at the time and your definition of who is and who is not a hogger is a very personal one and may well add to your anxiety while driving. There are all sorts out there, some good, some bad, best to learn to cope with both and forget about those who fall below whatever standard you decide is adequate.

This post has been edited by Lodesman: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 09:40

[kommando]

Lodesman +1 In the US undertaking is allowed and happens continuously as the 3 lanes are really all independent of each other, everyone knows it happens and you drive monitoring both lanes either side if you are in the middle. A MLOC driver who goes to the US would quickly end up in one of the inner or outer lanes so they only had to monitor one other lane not two. The downside is all the cell phone/coffee cup/eating that the drivers spend all their time doing.

[Fredd]

The reason that works in the US (although theoretically they are meant to pass on the left) is that there's little difference in lane speeds, so few nasty surprises with traffic "appearing from nowhere" when you want to change lane, even in heavy traffic. In this country you could easily have had 60mph differentials, so much more difficult to maintain awareness of both sides. Nowadays maximum motorway speeds are in general dramatically lower than they were a decade ago and clustered between 56mph and 75mph, so maybe it would work here too now.

[notmeatloaf]

Lodesmam it is clearly not hogging if there is heavy traffic in lane one to the point there are no reasonable gaps to pull back into.

Perhaps ironically I have always worked on the basis if there is room for someone to undertake you should move over.

I did have a black pickup truck behind me a few weeks ago who took it to extremes though, moving back into lane one even if it was for less than 5 seconds in a fairly sharp way.

[Unzippy]

As for Australia - it's only legal as they would struggle to comprehend the concept - no fkin clue.

It's been the thing I've most bee shocked about - their driving ability

Clueless.

[Redivi]

Nowadays maximum motorway speeds are in general dramatically lower than they were a decade ago and clustered between 56mph and 75mph, so maybe it would work here too now.

Very true

Back then, if I travelled at 70, most cars would be flying past me

Nowadays, you only have to drive at 75 to be faster than nearly everyone else

[Ocelot]

I tend to stick to 60 when on the motorway to save petrol (over 100 miles of motorway driving a day to get to work and back). However, this is only in lane 1. If I overtake slow-moving lorries I go at 70 if anyone's behind me.

I also see plenty of middle-lane drivers going 55. If I'm in lane 1 going faster I do sometimes pass them in this lane. From Peter's experience, it sounds like even this is frowned upon by the police, even if I'm staying in my lane.

[typefish]

Nowadays maximum motorway speeds are in general dramatically lower than they were a decade ago and clustered between 56mph and 75mph, so maybe it would work here too now.

Very true

Back then, if I travelled at 70, most cars would be flying past me

Nowadays, you only have to drive at 75 to be faster than nearly everyone else

And I feel the roads are far more dangerous for it. Bloody do-gooders.

[notmeatloaf]

From Peter's experience, it sounds like even this is frowned upon by the police, even if I'm staying in my lane.

Frowned upon by a policeman, not the police.

Everyone has their pet peeves. In my experience, driving some unusual cars which attracted attention, most traffic police are really into cars - as you'd expect in a profession where you get to do high speed pursuits - and tend to let you off a lot if you are apologetic and contrite.

However, I also got stopped by one doing 40mph in a 30mph at 11pm on a deserted dual carriageway on the edge of town who didn't buy that at all. I don't think that means ALL police are now anal about speeding though.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 20:07

[DancingDad]

…….. Everyone has their pet peeves. In my experience, driving some unusual cars which attracted attention, most traffic police are really into cars - as you'd expect in a profession where you get to do high speed pursuits - and tend to let you off a lot if you are apologetic and contrite.…….

Reminds me of a youthful experience.
Had a Mk1 facelift 3ltre Capri. Tuned and very sharp on power (and brakes) but looked a little shabby and nothing external to make it stand out, not even the twin exhausts as later big Capris had.
Often shocked Xr3i/Gti hot hatch drivers at the lights.
Late at night, speeding, well over the 30 limit and failed to notice a cop car at a junction.... so copped the blue lights to pull over.
What speed were you doing...30 occifer...bollocks you were, WTF is this thing?
Spent the next few minutes under the bonnet with the cop, explaining what tuning had been done (overbored, hi lift cam, valves and ports, quad barrel carb were hi points), suspension and brakes off a 2.8 injection, wider tyres then stock but still steelies and not over sized....
Cop was truly interested, had a good chat about motors, then told me to p*ss orf and behave in future... twas a good result.
Had a lot of fun in that car, silly thing is that for all the power it had, a modern family saloon can easily have more and certain to handle and stop better.

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 20:32

[notmeatloaf]

Had a lot of fun in that car, silly thing is that for all the power it had, a modern family saloon can easily have more and certain to handle and stop better.

Yeah but it felt a lot bloody faster in an older car!

I have a Merc for sensible driving but a very heavily modded Mk1 Clio for fun - mainly because it came pretty bloody stripped back as standard anyway.

Goes like the clappers and handles like a bloody go-kart. 80mph in the Merc and you might as well be on a pushbike. 80mph in the Clio and it feels like you're about to take off.

[peterguk]

From Peter's experience, it sounds like even this is frowned upon by the police, even if I'm staying in my lane.

Frowned upon by a policeman, not the police.

And the law unless you can show otherwise.

[PASTMYBEST]

Not motorway but this shows the (lack of) thought process of some.
30MPH road, single carriage way approaching a roundabout it widens to two lanes. Guy in front move straight over to the second lane. Goes round the roundabout to 12.00 o clock to carry straight on. As do I from the left. This gut the travels 500 metres in the RHL not overtaking any other vehicle. Then cuts in to the lest right in front of me because the RHL is right turn only.

People either aren't learning proper lane discipline or they don't care.

[DancingDad]

From Peter's experience, it sounds like even this is frowned upon by the police, even if I'm staying in my lane.

Frowned upon by a policeman, not the police.

And the law unless you can show otherwise.

While you are right, it is still very much a subjective offence.
Your cop seemed to believe that undertaking as you did is Careless and though supported by the Highway Code wording, his mate on the next shift may have simply pulled you for a talking to.
Or may have ignored you, deciding that it was ok.
Purely subjective, not like speeding or any other that is defined by a specific act or limit.

[notmeatloaf]

From Peter's experience, it sounds like even this is frowned upon by the police, even if I'm staying in my lane.

Frowned upon by a policeman, not the police.

And the law unless you can show otherwise.

You have been charged with careless driving which has such a wide net that almost any driving could or could not be careless depending on circumstances.

Certainly I can imagine situations where undertaking is careless, and situations outside the highway code where it isn't. I appreciate you have a habit setting precedent but I doubt if you take it to a higher court they will rule that undertaking is always careless, or is never careless.

This post has been edited by notmeatloaf: Sat, 28 Jul 2018 - 21:42