[NIP Wizard] when is 6 months calculated Options

[morayo23]

NIP Details and Circumstances
What is the name of the Constabulary? -
Date of the offence: - March 2018
Date of the NIP: - 9 days after the offence
Date you received the NIP: - 12 days after the offence
Location of offence (exact location as it appears on the NIP: important): - A406 WEST OF BOUNDS GREEN RD N11 TO A406 EAST OF A1000 N12 (11611171), UNITED KINGDOM
Was the NIP addressed to you? - Yes
Was the NIP sent by first class post, second class or recorded delivery? - Second
If your are not the Registered Keeper, what is your relationship to the vehicle? -
How many current points do you have? - 0
Provide a description of events (if you know what happened) telling us as much about the incident as possible - some things that may seem trivial to you may be important, so don't leave anything out. Please do not post personal details for obvious reasons - I was at an event the night before and stayed at a friends place. My cousins from abroad were staying at my house. One of them took the spare keys on the door and drove the car but non are admitting to it. My daughter confirmed this to me. However, i admitted to it as i did not think that anyone else drove my car and totally forgot about the event i attended until looked into it properly

NIP Wizard Responses
These were the responses used by the Wizard to arrive at its recommendation:
Have you received a NIP? - Yes
Are you the Registered Keeper of the vehicle concerned (is your name and address on the V5/V5C)? - Yes
Did the first NIP arrive within 14 days? - Yes
Although you are the Registered Keeper, were you also the keeper of the vehicle concerned (the person normally responsible for it) at the time of the alleged offence? - Yes
Were you driving? - Unsure
Do you know who was driving? - Unsure who was driving

NIP Wizard Recommendation
Based on these responses the Wizard suggested that this course of action should be considered:

• If you can show that after reasonable diligence you have been unable to determine the identity of the driver, you will not be guilty of S172 failure to provide.

Generated by the PePiPoo NIP Wizard v3.3.2: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 11:30:19 +0000

Also, the address is different. When they first sent me the NIP it was the correct address. My neighbour has just handed me a letter that has removed the flat number of the address and i have opened it and missed the 21 days for reply.

The whole house number is two, but then there are flat numbers which was missed off my court summons papers, what can i do?

offence date was 11/03
single justice procedure notice was 24/08

how do you count the 6 months?

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[NewJudge]

offence date was 11/03
single justice procedure notice was 24/08

how do you count the 6 months?

From 11th March. So they have until 10th September to commence proceedings. Issuing the SJPN (together with a "written charge") marks the beginning of those proceedings, so well in time

The other issues may need some more exploration

[morayo23]

thank you @newjudge

[Jlc]

What offences are being pursued?

(Remember a s172 offence occurs relative to the date of it's service and not the underlying offence)

[morayo23]

Driving offence
exceed 50mph speed limit (trunk roads sped limiy)

was doing 59 in 50 apparently

s84 and 85 of the road traffic regulation act 1984 and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act 1988

[Jlc]

So you've admitted being the driver but the matter has progressed to court.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 13:44

[Logician]

I have no idea what has happened here.

1. You say you admitted, mistakenly, that you were driving. If you did that within the 28 day time limit, you would not have been taken to court, for 59 in 50 you would have been offered a course or a fixed penalty. The only reason you would go to court would be for not giving the name of a driver within 28 days.

2. But you say the offence is described as exceeding 50mph speed limit.

3. What 21 day time limit did you have to reply to what? (Clearly this was not the first NIP, so not the 28 day limit) Was this to reply to the single justice procedure notice? Have you now replied, if so what did you say?

4. What 6 months time limit do you mean?

[Redivi]

The OP has a problem if it's a simple speeding offence

If he pleads guilty, it's a three point offence with the possibility of asking to be sentenced at the FPN level because the NIP was delivered to the wrong address
He is, however, committing a PCJ

If he changes his mind that he was driving, he's in line for an S172 prosecution

The police will also be very suspicious if he names his overseas cousins as the possible drivers
The reaction will be at best a six point charge for permitting the car to be driven

Are the cousins still staying ?
If so, my personal approach would be to tell them to give you £200 to cover the fine and inconvenience or find somewhere else to stay

[morayo23]

So you've admitted being the driver but the matter has progressed to court.

Yes, I admitted because i thought it could only be be. And yes, the matter has been progressed to and SJPN, which i have not responded to yet as i have just received it due to an incorrect address

I have no idea what has happened here.

1. You say you admitted, mistakenly, that you were driving. If you did that within the 28 day time limit, you would not have been taken to court, for 59 in 50 you would have been offered a course or a fixed penalty. The only reason you would go to court would be for not giving the name of a driver within 28 days.

2. But you say the offence is described as exceeding 50mph speed limit.

3. What 21 day time limit did you have to reply to what? (Clearly this was not the first NIP, so not the 28 day limit) Was this to reply to the single justice procedure notice? Have you now replied, if so what did you say?

4. What 6 months time limit do you mean?

Yes I admitted i was driving before i found out that it was not me driving. This was in March. I have only just received the SJPN today because they put the wrong address on it. SJPN was sent to me on the 24/08 but someone has already explained that this is within the 6 month time frame, however i have missed the 21 days to plead as a result of the incorrect address

The OP has a problem if it's a simple speeding offence

If he pleads guilty, it's a three point offence with the possibility of asking to be sentenced at the FPN level because the NIP was delivered to the wrong address
He is, however, committing a PCJ

If he changes his mind that he was driving, he's in line for an S172 prosecution

The police will also be very suspicious if he names his overseas cousins as the possible drivers
The reaction will be at best a six point charge for permitting the car to be driven

Are the cousins still staying ?
If so, my personal approach would be to tell them to give you £200 to cover the fine and inconvenience or find somewhere else to stay

Ok, this is new to me. What is an OP? and FNP? and PCJ?
S172 - but my keys were taken without my consent and i am more than happy to provide all of my cousins details albeit i don't know which one was driving.

Cousins have since left and will deffo not be staying with me again. So should I not plead not guilty and change my story or plead guilty and accept the points and fine?

[Jlc]

OP = Original Poster (you)
PCJ = Perverting Course of Justice.
FPN = Fixed Penalty Notice (i.e. 3 points £100)

You're in a right pickle. PCJ carries a potential jail sentence but the prosecution would have to demonstrate you deliberately named the wrong driver (if they were to pursue such a charge). You appear to have been mistaken in your nomination.

You might want to consider contacting a motoring solicitor given the potential gravity of your situation.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Wed, 19 Sep 2018 - 18:10

[Churchmouse]

The police will also be very suspicious if he names his overseas cousins as the possible drivers
The reaction will be at best a six point charge for permitting the car to be driven

He did say he had no knowledge of the relevant facts until after the event had occurred, so he may not have "permitted" anyone to drive without insurance. If your car is stolen or TWOC'd, that is not "permitting".

The problem is that this set of facts, if presented in court or to the police would raise an entire flotilla's worth of red flags, and the authorities would not be inclined to let this go without thorough investigation. (The six months limitation could come and go, but there is no statute of limitations on certain more serious offences.) The truth is the truth, but the OP needs to be prepared for a lot of skepticism.

--Churchmouse

[Ukayzfinest]

Hi OP , I take this route regularly , which way where you travelling and where about is the camera ? ( from the letter you received , i gather it wasn’t you driving )
Thanks

[morayo23]

The police will also be very suspicious if he names his overseas cousins as the possible drivers
The reaction will be at best a six point charge for permitting the car to be driven

He did say he had no knowledge of the relevant facts until after the event had occurred, so he may not have "permitted" anyone to drive without insurance. If your car is stolen or TWOC'd, that is not "permitting".

The problem is that this set of facts, if presented in court or to the police would raise an entire flotilla's worth of red flags, and the authorities would not be inclined to let this go without thorough investigation. (The six months limitation could come and go, but there is no statute of limitations on certain more serious offences.) The truth is the truth, but the OP needs to be prepared for a lot of skepticism.

--Churchmouse

Ok noted. I have my friend as a witness, I could gather other statements from people who saw me? Don't know how else to prove.

[Ukayzfinest]

Hi , I take this route regularly , which way where you travelling and where about is the camera ? ( from the letter you received , i gather it wasn’t you driving )
Thanks

[andy_foster]

If he pleads guilty,<...>
He is, however, committing a PCJ

How exactly would that constitute PCoJ? What course of justice would be perverted by the OP pleading guilty?

[morayo23]

Hi OP , I take this route regularly , which way where you travelling and where about is the camera ? ( from the letter you received , i gather it wasn’t you driving )
Thanks

Letter says a406 west of bounds green rd, n11 to a406 east of A1000 N12, I have no clue where this even is, the camera pics just show my car on the motorway, not on any speed lines. I have also searched for the camera location but have found nothing

[Redivi]

If he pleads guilty,<...>
He is, however, committing a PCJ

How exactly would that constitute PCoJ? What course of justice would be perverted by the OP pleading guilty?

He's pleading guilty to a speeding offence and taking the points for another driver

Vicky Pryce got 8 months for it

[andy_foster]

He's pleading guilty to a speeding offence and taking the points for another driver

Vicky Pryce got 8 months for it

Are you saying that Vicky Pryce got 8 months for pleading guilty to speeding?

Also, are you saying that by pleading guilty to speeding the OP would be stopping that actual driver getting points, that he would somehow otherwise get if the OP did not plead guilty?

[southpaw82]

I think it would be a bold statement to say that pleading guilty to an offence that one knows one did not commit (and that someone else did) could never be PCOJ.

[morayo23]

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Pics as requested