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CPP PCN Help
MontyMH
post Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 13:54
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Hi there all,

Looking for some advice dealing with a PCN received from Car Parking Partnership all details can be seen in the document attached.
Attached Image


My first question, Is this considered a NTK and if not should i wait for an NTK before appealing?

If it is recommended that i appeal, i would appeal under these stipulations:

"-The operator has no standing or authority to pursue charges nor form a contract with the driver
-The charge was not based on a genuine pre estimate of loss
-Unclear and inadequate signage".

Building on the points above, after reviewing the signage at the location I am concerned that an exact time is not given to prevent or make clear to anyone using the car park what is considered the minimum time that would incur a parking charge, please see attachment for signage
Attached Image

I believe i can use this to show that signage is inadequate.

Thanks you so much to anyone who decides to help with this.
Monty
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post Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 13:54
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Sheffield Dave
post Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 16:17
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If it's the first paperwork received by the keeper, then it's a NtK.
What was: the date of the event, the date of issue of the PCN, and the date it was received? If the time between the 1st and 3rd is greater than 14 days, then they can only claim off the driver (who they do not know), and not the keeper.

GPEOL ceased being a defence point after the Supreme Court case in 2015.

Did the driver have a permit and was thus entitled to park in that car park? If not, it can be argued that the signage is forbidding and so no contract was offered or accepted.

This post has been edited by Sheffield Dave: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 - 16:18
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MontyMH
post Thu, 1 Aug 2019 - 11:48
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Date of the event =17/07/2019
Date of issue = 20/07/2019
Date received = 24/7/2019

I believe the driver did not have a permit.

Thanks for your help Dave.
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MontyMH
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 16:37
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Hi there all,

some developments since the previous post that i could really use some help with.

1. I sent a letter to the business address of CPP stating the following:
"Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you regarding PCN that I recently received on the --/--/-- the grounds of Colchester hospital allegedly taking place in an area referred to as “Staff Car Park B”.

I am asking that you cancel the charges based on the following:
-The signage is forbidding therefore no contract was offered or accepted by the motorist.

Building on the points above, after reviewing the signage at the location I am concerned that it is not written what the CPP considers the maximum time that can be spent in the car park without incurring a charge."

I have kept proof of postage for this document.

2. CPP sent a letter stating that as their has been no correspondance or payment the fine has now gone beyond the discount period and they are still expecting payment.

3. I then made an online appeal through the CPP website sending the exact same statement as i have quoted above which i also have receipt of.

4. I received an email recently stating that:
"Dear Sir/Madam

We have tested the poplar verification code XXXXXXXXXX using the 'submit an appeal online' function on the POPLA website and can confirm there does not appear to to be any issue with the validity of this code.

We therefore advise you to re-check the code and attempt to contact POPLA again."

I have no idea what they are referring to as i have only made an appeal through the CPP website and they don't seem to have answered my appeal statement.

So I'm desperately looking for someone to make some sense of the situation and can advise me what i can do next?

Thanks so much to anyone who offers their advice.
Monty
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ostell
post Wed, 11 Sep 2019 - 19:45
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They seem to think they have responded to your appeal by rejecting it and giving a POPLA code
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 10:34
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Ype, sounds like an obvious response is due from you, that you have NOT HAD a POPLA appeal code sent to you, as they have not rejected your appela of X date sent by...
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MontyMH
post Thu, 12 Sep 2019 - 12:19
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I have just spoken to POPLA over the phone and this uninformative nonsense email translates to:

"we have rejected your appeal and have generated the following POPLA code for you to appeal further"

Im going to get on with the POPLA appeal now and see how it goes.

I'm at a point where i at least want to know what they consider the maximum time on the site a driver can wait without getting a fine.
People pick up their partners from the hospital and sometimes their shifts can run over, so it would be nice to know when one would have to leave and come back.
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MontyMH
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:28
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With regards to the POPLA letter i'm unsure which of my reasons to be the basis of my appeal.

1. The signage does not tell you that after a certain time on site that you will incur a fine, i believe they should at least tell you how long this grace period lasts (there must be a certain grace period as otherwise everyone entering and leaving the hospital that did not pay parking would incur a fine)

2. The driver was not parked in 'Staff Car park B'

3. There is no evidence of being parked in 'Staff Car park B' (Photo evidence is of car entering and leaving the site with a recording of the time)

4. Something along the lines of there not being a pickup/dropoff point for employees/patients and consideration for these people being late to finish

Thanks to anyone that takes time out of their day to assist with this,
Really appreciate any help.
Monty
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nosferatu1001
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 12:57
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1) no requirement to display this
2) BINGO! The vehciel was PROVEN not to be parked there. Expect to have to show this to POPLA with diagrams and your WS proving this. State the operator has NO evidence - just a camera record. You will have to show how you cna go from B to where the car WAS parked and how they dont have a camera there. Not your problem that theyve done this.
3) as above
4) NO idea what that means.
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MontyMH
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 13:32
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 13:57) *
1) no requirement to display this
2) BINGO! The vehciel was PROVEN not to be parked there. Expect to have to show this to POPLA with diagrams and your WS proving this. State the operator has NO evidence - just a camera record. You will have to show how you cna go from B to where the car WAS parked and how they dont have a camera there. Not your problem that theyve done this.
3) as above
4) NO idea what that means.


Hi Nos,

Thanks for responding,
So obviously it seems 2 is my best option, few questions:
1. What does WS stand for?
2. Im assuming drawing and scanning the diagrams is recommended?

Kind regards,
Monty
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jezt
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 15:20
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1. WS = Witness Statement
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MontyMH
post Fri, 13 Sep 2019 - 19:42
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Thanks Jezt
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 16 Sep 2019 - 15:41
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Of course you need to use google maps and show how the route the driver took was valid. You will have a large appeal with these pictures INLINE WITH THE TEXT. Don't stick them at the end. You cannot use links - all pictures have to be included within the appeal PDF. you will not type it into third site but use a pdf , same as everyone.
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MontyMH
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 14:14
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Hi All,

Trying to bust out this farce of a letter and I need some criticism as i don't think it is up to scratch yet.

Please let me know what else i need to include.

"Dear POPLA,

POPLA Ref.
Charge Notice Ref.

I am writing to lodge a formal appeal in respect of the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued by Car Parking Partnership in respect of an alleged breach of Parking Terms and Conditions at Colchester General Hospital. I confirm that on that date, I was the vehicle’s keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition in Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”).

Circle (Red) - ANPR Camera Location
Circle (Blue) - “Staff car park B”

The below diagram shows circled in blue where Car Parking Partnership (CPP) alleges the driver to have been parked and circled in red is where the ANPR cameras took pictures of my vehicle.

As you can see the evidence that CPP has provided does not show that the driver was parked in “Staff car park B”.

I would also like to point out CPP’s below standard communications in this process with these two points:

1) I sent them a letter on the ------- of which they did not reply (please see receipt attached)
2) The reply to my online appeal that didn’t relate and seems to be a generic template response (please see attached)

I would also like to ask that if this appeal is deemed unsuccessful it should be considered that although CPP believes that i did not appeal before the discount period i have proof of postage that shows I had written to them on the ------. Therefore I believe that the amount they are trying to retrieve should still be at the discounted rate of £35 in total."


Thanks in advance
Monty



This post has been edited by MontyMH: Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 14:15
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 14:17
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I would lay it out far more formally than that
What POPLA appeals have you reviewed first?
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MontyMH
post Thu, 19 Sep 2019 - 14:17
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Online appeal response attached*
Attached File(s)
Attached File  184076_374451_edit.pdf ( 428.44K ) Number of downloads: 68
 
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