VCS LBC Albert Street Options

[suggii]

Hi, my husband received a Letter before claim from VCS.
His a private hire taxi driver and dropped a passenger in a VCS Albert Street car park. However his car started to give problems while trying to drive off. So he stopped to check his car bonnet. He even cancelled the next job he received to try and see if he can fix the problem. It took him a short while (29minutes according to VCS ANPR)while he was there.
He received a NTK and made the mistake of calling and explaining the situation. My husband even asked to check CCTV footage to see him trying to fix his car, to which they replied we don’t have CCTV at the car park.
We realised later this mistake after checking Online forums and knew we shouldn’t have called them.

My husband appealed and it was unsuccessful, to which he called them and they demanded the payment. He was told to email them and ask for the appeal result and demand the reason for the decision. Which he got no reply at all.
They sent letters increasing from £100 to £160, then debt collector letter from companies like zenith. We ignored all that from online advice.
We now have received the dreaded letter before claim, which they are claiming money and estimated amounts around £200 including court fees and interest.
They just demand a response to pay them the £160 within 30days of the letter. They sent a reply form to fill In details and a standard financial statement (which i wont be filling in, from forum advice.)

i am at the stage of writing a Rebuttal (from Daniel sans letter) and a SAR letter.

i will appreciate if anyone can give feedback to my letters i will post below. i have until sunday 28th to respond by.



Ref: XXX

Dear Sirs,

I am in receipt of your Letter Before Claim of DD MM 2018.

Your letter contains insufficient detail of the claim and fails to provide copies of evidence you place reliance upon.

You must know that on 01 October 2017 a new protocol is applicable to debt claims. Since proceedings have not yet been issued, the new protocol clearly applies and must be complied with.

Your letter lacks specificity and breaches both the requirements of the previously applicable Practice Direction - Pre-Action Conduct (paragraphs 6(a) and 6©) and the new Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims (paragraphs 3.1(a)-(d), 5.1 and 5.2. Please treat this letter as a formal request for all of the documents / information that the protocol now requires you to provide. You must not issue proceedings without complying with that protocol. I reserve the right to draw any failure of the Claimant to comply with the protocol to the attention of the court and to ask the court to stay the claim and order you to comply with its pre-action obligations, and when costs come to be considered.

As litigation department you must surely be familiar with the requirements of both the Practice Direction applicable pre-1 October and the Protocol which applies thereafter (and you, as a serial litigator of small claims, should likewise be aware of them). As you must know, the Practice Direction and Protocol bind all potential litigants, whatever the size or type of the claim. Its express purpose is to assist parties in understanding the claim and their respective positions in relation to it, to enable parties to take stock of their positions and to negotiate a settlement, or at least narrow the issues, without incurring the costs of court proceedings or using up valuable court time. It is astounding that a firm of Solicitors are sending a consumer a vague and unevidenced 'Letter before Claim' in complete ignorance of the pre-existing Practice Direction and the new Protocol.

Nobody is immune from the requirements and obligations of the Practice Direction and now the Protocol.

I require you to comply with its obligations by sending me the following information/documents:

1. an explanation of the cause of action

2. whether they are pursuing me as driver or keeper

3. whether they are relying on the provisions of Schedule 4 of POFA 2012

4. what the details of the claim are; where it is claimed the vehicle was parked, for how long, how the monies being claimed arose and have been calculated

5. Is the claim for a contractual breach? If so, what is the date of the agreement? The names of the parties to it and provide to me a copy of that contract.

6. Is the claim for trespass? If so, provide details.

7. Provide me a copy of the contract with the landowner under which they assert authority to bring the claim, as required by the IPC code of practice section B, clause 1.1 establishing yourself as the creditor

8. a plan showing where any signs were displayed

9. details of the signs displayed (size of sign, size of font, height at which displayed)

10. Provide details of the original charge, and detail any interest and administrative or other charges added

11. Provide a copy of the Information Sheet and the Reply Form

If you do not provide me with this information then I put you on notice that I will be relying on the cases of Webb Resolutions Ltd v Waller Needham & Green [2012] EWHC 3529 (Ch), Daejan Investments Limited v The Park West Club Limited (Part 20) Buxton Associates [2003] EWHC 2872, Charles Church Developments Ltd v Stent Foundations Limited & Peter Dann Limited [2007] EWHC 855 in asking the court to impose sanctions on you and to order a stay of the proceedings, pursuant to paragraphs 13 ,15(b) and © and 16 of the Practice Direction, as referred to in paragraph 7.2 of the Protocol.

Until you have complied with your obligations and provided this information, I am unable to respond properly to the alleged claim and to consider my position in relation to it, and it is entirely premature (and a waste of costs and court time) for you to issue proceedings. Should you do so, then I will seek an immediate stay pursuant to paragraph 15(b) of the Practice Direction and an order that this information is provided.



Yours faithfully


-------------------------


SAR Letter

Dear Sir

Ref: PCN ref xxxxxxxxxx

I am writing in reference to the recent letter before claim sent (Date) demanding for payment of the parking charge. I have explained previously through phone calls explaining the incident (date) at Albert Street car Park.

I am a private hire taxi driver, car registration (xxx xxx). On the day of the incident I was working and driving on the request of my passenger, whom wanted to be dropped off at the Albert Street Car Park, as it was easier for them to walk towards New Street Station. I have attached a journey route of the journey I had made to prove I was on duty at the said time.
However, upon leaving the car park my car broke down as it had an intermittent fault, due to this I couldn’t leave the car park as desired, the fault resolved after a short while and I left the car park.

This letter is not an appeal, it must be considered as a Subject Access Request. I would like to request for all data held and processed which is;
- All the photos taken on the day;
- All human intervention notes;
- All electronic data including automated decisions to generate letters;
- A close up of the sign on the day with the car parked/empty in the same view;
- All photos relating to this case, without holding none at all,
- Copies of the PCN and all letters sent.

This is a Subject Access Request but also an Objection to Processing and a formal request to Restrict Data Processing. As such, any litigation MUST be on hold and I will be making an Information Commissioners Office complaint for the mishandling of the Subject Access Request and Restricted Data request and misuse of my personal data evolving from; intrusive, unjustified, predatory and disproportionate collecting of photographic data of a car with a driver in it not parking at all and certainly nothing can be described as ‘reasonable cause’ to get DVLA data and demand money.

Kind regards
---------



Would this be ok to send as a SAR? or should i omitt the section on what happened on the day of the incident?
i would greatly appreciate any feedback on both the rebuttal and SAR letter.

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[nosferatu1001]

YOu entitle it DATA CONTROLLER and send to their registered address.

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 15:21

[suggii]

Thank you nosferatu1001.

Will post both letters first thing morning and get back when I have any correspondence.

[suggii]

Sent both letters SAR, first class post addressed to DATA CONTROLLER.
And Rebuttal letter addressed to litigation dept.

This post has been edited by suggii: Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 07:56

[suggii]

Just recieved a reply from Jake Burgess VCS. RE: intention to start court proceedings.

They have completely ignored the two letters I sent. The SAR and Rebuttal.
Are they actually not following the PAP themselves if they are not relplying to the letters of request for information?

Below is what he wrote.

I am disappointed to note that we have not reached an amicable agreement in respect of our “letter before claim” despite our engagement in open correspondence. As such, in accordance with the Pre-Action Protocol (for debt claims) clause 8.2 we are giving you 14 days notice of our intention to start court proceedings.


Can anyone advise where to go from here?

Regards

[nosferatu1001]

So you never got a response to the SAR within the 1 month deadline?
Did you not complain to them AND to the ICO?

You respond back to VCS stating that, as they have failed to comply with their obligations under the PAP, by responding to your letter of XX date, AND by failing to respond to your SAR of X date, they should delay any proceedings until they have compled with their olligations
Else you will counter claim for breach of the DPA; their failure to respond to the SAR will materially affect your ability to defend.

[suggii]

No I didn’t get any reply at all from both letters.
Instead received this letter that has given 14 days before starting court proceedings.

No I didn’t complain to them.

Thanks for that.

How do I go about complaining to ICO? Any help would be appreciated

Regards

[nosferatu1001]

Well it woudl have been good to do that a few weeks ago.

ICO webpage, start a complaint.

[suggii]

ICO.org.uk?

I clicked on the make a complaint button - personal info concerns. And clicked next then which option do I select regarding what is my concern about personal information?
-Accessing personal information or
-The way the organisation has used your information?

This post has been edited by suggii: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 14:35

[bearclaw]

Have you been able to access your personal information? If not then that would seem to be the best option.

[suggii]

oh ok makes sense. Thanks bearclaw.

would the letter below be ok as a reply to the
intention of starting court proceedings letter?

Dear Sir/ Madam


Ref: Parking Charge Notice ref: xxxxxxxx

I refer to your letter dated xxxx.
It is not understood how you can be disappointed when Vehicle Control Services (VCS) has failed to comply with their obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol, by not responding to both my letters dated xx xx xx; to provide information requested in my Subject Access Request and my reply to your letter before claim dated xx xx xx.
I invite you to instigate court action whereby I will inform the court of your failure to provide the information and request the case is dismissed. Otherwise I will counter claim for breach of the Data Protection Act.

Yours Faithfully


please feel free to amend.

This post has been edited by suggii: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 15:39

[bearclaw]

No. The whole point of the PAP is to avoid court. Don't be offering to make them rush into court. Have a look below and see what others think.

Ref: Parking Charge Notice ref: xxxxxxxx

I refer to your letter dated xxxx.

Vehicle Control Services (VCS) has failed to comply with their obligations under the Pre-Action Protocol, by not responding to both my letters dated xx xx xx; to provide information requested in my Subject Access Request and my reply to your letter before claim dated xx xx xx. This means that we have not been able to narrow the issues between us. If VCS instigate court action without providing the information requested which is xxx weeks overdue I will invite the court to strike the case for the aforementioned reasons.

I request again the information requested in my letter of xxx (enclosed) and require an answer within seven days or a complaint to the ICO will be made without further warning.

Yours Faithfully

As in everything you send - first class get a proof of posting from the post office and staple that to the file copy of your letter for your reference....

This post has been edited by bearclaw: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 15:51

[suggii]

Aww thank you bearclaw for that. That sounds much better. I think the invite line in my letter makes no sense. But you have worded it better.

Will get proof of posting. As I have done with the previous two letters sent to VCS.

Regards

This post has been edited by suggii: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 - 15:56

[suggii]

My OH recieved the court claim forms. The issue date is 07/02/2019. However, the claim forms are from Northampton.
They have sent paper forms to fill. They also gave an online address to respond
www.moneyclaim.gov.co.uk


VCS have not responded to either of my letters (SAR and Rebuttal) that I had sent the second time. I wanted to know what chances does my OH have of a defence without any information? He doesn’t have any pictures of the signs and also the car park has been demolished?

[nosferatu1001]

Don't worry, that's usuall6nwhere claim forms come from

Go online, and acknowledge the claim immediately. Defend in full, don't contest jurisdiction, do NOT start the defenc at all

That gives you 33 days from date of issue - so plenty of time - for the court to RE EIFE your emailed defence.

You write w defence and make them prove it
If they're outside of the 30 days deadline to respond complain to the ico AND send the VCS data protection officer another letter reminding them of their legal obligations.

[suggii]

I recieved an email reply for my SAR.

Dear Sir

With reference to your request for a copy of your personal data held on our system in-line with GDPR legislation; please find attached a copy of the information held.

Photographic evidence and data is held on file in accordance with the Data Protection Act 2018 and is used for the sole purpose of pursuing settlement of a Parking Charge. We comply with the requirements of the Data Protection Act 2018 and the General Data Protection Regulations to uphold your rights to Privacy. Our Privacy Notice gives clear reasons for why, from where, and how we obtain and use your Personal Data, under what circumstances we may retain and share your data with third parties and for how long that data may be retained.

Please refer to: http://www.vehiclecontrolservices.co.uk and follow the links for our Privacy Notices in respect of any questions you may have and your rights in respect of your data.

The information sent is contained in a PDF document and/or zip file. It is your responsibility to ensure that you are able to both receive and open the files and to check your spam/junk folders at regular intervals, in case the attachment(s) has been filtered out by your mail server.

Yours Sincerely



Mark


They sent data held, such as: letters sent through post, litigation data, telephone contacts my OH made with notes about the calls.
I found one piece of data odd. As previously my husband sent an email asking for a copy of the appeal rejection reasons. They sent me my email but the email on the sent address bar and from address was from someone working for excel (.....@excelparking.co.uk) like they were forwarding it from one person to another who both work for excel parking. Is this a point to be raised as to why excel hold my emails?

[Redivi]

They sent me my email but the email on the sent address bar and from address was from someone working for excel (.....@excelparking.co.uk) like they were forwarding it from one person to another who both work for excel parking. Is this a point to be raised as to why excel hold my emails?

I would save that for later

What you can do instead, going back to early posts, is make clear in the defence that it's an Excel car park

If the driver did have a contract, the signs say that it was with Excel
This is confirmed by the email correspondence from Excel

VCS is clearly a stranger to any contract and has no legal capacity to issue a claim

[suggii]

Thank you Redivi and Nosfertu1001.

[chapinahat]

Hi

VCS snd Excel.are trading names of the same company. So any contract is with the same corporation.

This may prompt "forum member is new here look at the post count before consideration of advice"


ATB

[ostell]

Hi

VCS snd Excel.are trading names of the same company. So any contract is with the same corporation.

This may prompt "forum member is new here look at the post count before consideration of advice"


ATB

Wrong, they are separate legal entities and not trading names. VCS may own Excel but they are still, nevertheless separate companies and therefore an alleged contract with one cannot result in a claim by another entity.

I believe this was proven in court not so long ago

VCS is here
And this is Excel

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 14 Feb 2019 - 08:09

[chapinahat]

Hi

My mistake. Same owner of both companies. The moving if information between them probably an issue. If contract to use land for parking includes right to subcontract then VCS could appoint part or all of their obligations where they wish. Similar to a contract for house renovation head contract maybe with builder A but may sub contract plumber B. Is there progress in argument that "VCS not party to contract as we have emails showing that Excel have been contacted".

Excel Ltd can trade as VCS and vice versa. Depends what parking signs say if this is not done legally. Neither company is going to object as one owner.

ATB