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Order of recovery of unpaid PCN, Order of recovery of unpaid PCN
Khialmohd
post Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:14
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Hello
I have received Form TE3 : order for recover of unpaid PCN for contravention dated 17/1/2019 for 38JL (ailing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign (must pass to the left) by cctv.
Now looked on council website and the following details came out.
PCN issues : 25/1/2019
Charge certificate issued:06/03/2019
Notice of Debt registration issued : 10/4/2019
Debt registration accepted :10/4/2019
Today in post received:18/4/2019: order for recovery of unpaid penalty charge

In my case, by looking at the images,I agree that the above conternetion has occurred but I have not received any PCN notice or any charge certificates or whatsoever so far. I haven’t changed my address in the past two years.
My questions:
1. How would I know where they have posted all these notices? Do they send it by recorded delivery?

2. How shall I contact Ealing council to explain that I have not received PCN and I am willing to pay that initial PCN ?

3. Is there any chance in success If i fill this Form TE9 and state that “I didn’t receive Penalty Charge Notice” ?

4. Do I need to fill this Form TE7, if I fill and sent Form TE9?

5. Shall I pay that £203?

Regards
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post Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:14
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stamfordman
post Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 22:09
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Not getting the PCN means you have 100% certainty of resetting the process. But it's worrying that you've missed two letters - is the address on the OfR correct? Any problems with post?

Process:

https://www.londontribunals.gov.uk/eat/unde...rcement-process

Statutory Declaration
Where an Order for Recovery has been made, liability for the penalty can then only be challenged in the following circumstances:

You did not receive the Penalty Charge Notice in question; or
You made representations to the Enforcement Authority concerned but did not receive a Notice of Rejection from that authority; or
You appealed to the adjudicator against the rejection by the Enforcement Authority of your representations but had no response to the appeal.
If, and only if, one of these applies, you may make a statutory declaration.


If the ground is that the Penalty Charge Notice was not received, the Order for Recovery, Charge Certificate and Penalty Charge Notice are cancelled. The Enforcement Authority may then issue a new Penalty Charge Notice;
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Neil B
post Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 22:11
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:14) *
Hello
I have received Form TE3 : order for recover of unpaid PCN for contravention dated 17/1/2019 for 38JL (ailing to comply with a sign

That's impossible; show us.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Incandescent
post Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 23:22
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It sounds like the address on your V5C registration document is incorrect or out of date. All the documents including the original PCN will have been sent to the V5 address as it was shortly after the alleged contravention date. The council use an on-line facility to the DVLA to get the name and address.

We need to see what you have received or no meaningful advice can be given. So please post up what you got in the post. If it is, indeed, an Order for Recovery, you can submit a Statutory Declaration and the matter will be reverted to the original PCN.

This post has been edited by Incandescent: Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 23:23
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Khialmohd
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 08:12
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Hi
Thanks everyone for your quick reply and valuable points.Just to clarify it further
I do not have any problem in receiving correspondence on my address. All my DVLA records have my address correct. Four weeks ago, I receive a PCN from a private car park , which means Dvla has my correct address.

Now I remember exactly, how did this conservation occurred. Actually on Merick road (contravention place ) there is still a Temperory signal traffic light and that time there was a car collision and car/cars ahead of me, started driving to the right side and not following the sign as there was accident. The oncoming traffic was anyway closed due to this temporary traffic signals for work. I followed to that side as well and many more were driving .

I am sure everyone at that time received this PCN as cctv are programmed but that was a common sense issue to ignore that arrow due to accident.
Now I wander this CCTV took image for contravention and store on system but the operator didn’t post it .

I will send this form that I didn’t receive it. Do I need any other witness to sign it as well on a separate paper?

Do I need to send my car registration-certificate ?

Regards




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hcandersen
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 09:25
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OP, as already pointed out by Incandescent, you cannot have a TE3 for a moving traffic offence, this relates to parking only.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...-charge-parking

So it is not for us to guess what you might have, you must post the docs.

At present the contravention is irrelevant.

Time is not your friend. Pl stick to our agenda, not yours.
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Khialmohd
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 11:41
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Many thanks for that. I assume you means that I must post that form to them ASAP stating that “I don’t not receive it”.
I will keep you updated .Thanks
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Neil B
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 11:49
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 11:41) *
Many thanks for that. I assume you means that I must post that form to them ASAP stating that “I don’t not receive it”.
I will keep you updated .Thanks

NO !

SHOW
us the notice.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Player1337
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 16:13
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I think the OP has trouble understanding your choice of words, maybe English isn't his first language? I mean I'm British born and a university graduate and even some of the words people use sometimes are alien to me (not implying that this is the case this time).

Anyway let me try help this guy also...

OP means you Khialmohd. You MUST read and follow instructions of these people, they are trying to help you, and you seem to be ignoring it all and doing your own thing. Go look at my thread as an example, go look at most of the other threads created as an example. Show all the evidence and documents, then follow their instructions.

This post has been edited by Player1337: Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 16:16
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Neil B
post Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 22:52
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QUOTE (Player1337 @ Fri, 19 Apr 2019 - 16:13) *
I think the OP has trouble understanding your choice of words, maybe English isn't his first language?

Had realised and I think 'post' was an unfortunate word.

But quite early on I said 'show' and he hasn't had a problem with that in his other thread.

We can only hope he looks back here before doing anything.


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Khialmohd
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 09:14
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Hello Neil B/Player1337/hcandersen
Thanks for your comments. Indeed, i found some abbreviations difficult to understand but never mind, every day is a school day. Here is attached copies of the docs.
I am looking forward to your experts' opinion to navigate me in the right direction with plain words.
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Neil B
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 09:53
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Images are too small to read.

But I can see one is TE7. Did Ealing send you that?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Khialmohd
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:06
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Hi
Yes, Form TE7, Form TE9 and Form TE3. It came in one envlope from a return address of , London Borough of Ealing Council.

I also attached bit large size copies of these form sent to me by ealing counciling. Actually ealing sent me these forms and i never received any corrospondance from them regarding this PCN. Who shall i contact first?
As usuall, if council reject my claim, that i didn't receive PCN initially, what would be the next stage?
Or shall i Form TE9 and state, that i didn'not receive PCN.

On Form TE3, there is a date 03/05/2019 to file a statement or pay the total amount of £203.

Please advise.
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Neil B
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:24
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:06) *
As usuall, if council reject my claim, that i didn't receive PCN initially, what would be the next stage?

First of all, calm down and let us confirm what is wrong here.


QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:06) *
Hi
Yes, Form TE7, Form TE9 and Form TE3. It came in one envlope from a return address of , London Borough of Ealing Council.

This is wrong, very wrong and you'll probably end up paying nothing.

The amount demanded indicates this IS for a moving traffic PCN.
So -
1/. TE forms are for parking only. They've sent the wrong one!

2/. They also should not have sent TE7 (late application) because you are NOT late.

The Order for Recovery should be a PE form.
You will need PE3 to make a Statutory Declaration.
But, to be safe, you should confirm this with TEC on Tuesday.

Just one question:
How did you know what the contravention is ?
QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Thu, 18 Apr 2019 - 21:14) *
order for recover of unpaid PCN for contravention dated 17/1/2019 for 38JL (ailing to comply with a sign indicating that vehicular traffic must pass to the specified side of the sign (must pass to the left) by cctv.


This post has been edited by Neil B: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:25


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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hcandersen
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 12:55
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I am looking forward to your experts' opinion to navigate me in the right direction with plain words.

As already posted, you cannot have a TE3 for moving traffic offences. The TE3 says '(Parking)' doesn't it.

So it's either the wrong form or you have a parking PCN as well as a moving traffic.

@NeilB 'How did you know what the contravention is ?'

Indeed!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 12:57
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Neil B
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 13:01
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QUOTE (hcandersen @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 12:55) *
@NeilB 'How did you know what the contravention is ?'

If you mean that it's MT then -
QUOTE (Neil B @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 11:24) *
The amount demanded indicates this IS for a moving traffic PCN.



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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 13:56
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Khialmohd.

You need to ask questions if there is anything you don't understand.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Khialmohd
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 14:44
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Hi

Here is attached image of details of this pcn, which i never received it and since i received these form, it says, PCN no. which i used and got all these details on ealing council webiste. This contervenation is 38JL. CCTV. FAILING TO COMPLY WITH SIGN, SHOWN TO DRIVE TO THE LEFT. It is taking by cctv and not issued for any parking by any traffic warden.
shall i wait till Tuesday, as mentioned in one post, for further comments or how should i start this process now?
Shall i fill this witness startment and post to them that i didnt receive it ?

Where should i begin this whole process now?

How will it advanatage me against ealing in sending me wrong forms?


Regards
Khial
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Neil B
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 15:56
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QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 14:44) *
Shall i fill this witness startment and post to them that i didnt receive it ?

No because it's the wrong form and will be automaticly rejected for processing.

Phone TEC (the court) on Tuesday and confirm you need form PE3 and ask them to e-mail it to you.

You will need to get it sworn/witnessed; free at local County Court (by appointment) or about
£7 by a solicitor.

e-mail it back to TEC - ask them the e-mail address.

Phone is 0300 123 1059

Let us know what TEC say on Tuesday.

----

This will automatically reste the process to PCN stage.
Ealing cannot oppose thi action.

QUOTE (Khialmohd @ Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 14:44) *
How will it advanatage me against ealing in sending me wrong forms?

Once we've reset it then that helps us get the whole PCN cancelled. What they have done is highly unlawful.

This post has been edited by Neil B: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 11:21


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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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cp8759
post Sat, 20 Apr 2019 - 21:23
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.

This post has been edited by cp8759: Sun, 21 Apr 2019 - 00:27


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
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