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Royal Free disabled parking ticket, Royal Free disabled parking ticket
jibber123
post Thu, 28 Jul 2022 - 18:46
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I've just received a parking ticket from Parking eye, after taking my mum to the royal free hospital last week. A friend had to use the hospital recently and prewarned us about having to register the blue badge on arrival so we were aware of that. My mum spoke to the hospital before the visit and was told to use the lower A&E entrance which has a 5min drop off limit on the 2 bays. We parked up at about 12:30 unloaded my mum into a wheel chair and wheeled her into the lobby. I registered the badge with the security officer there and then moved the car back to the normal disabled carpark on the level above, displaying the arrival time in the blue badge. I then went back to my mum to take her to her appointment and was with here for about 2 hours, but she needed to stay in for an hour or so longer for a procedure. I then moved the car as I needed to get some lunch and I new the Hampstead Heath carpark was free for blue badge holder. I was there for about an hour and got a call to say she was ready to be collected. I then drove back to the hospital and went in to the above disabled carpark but there were no spaces available so I went back down to the A&E drop of on the level below, parked collected her wheeled her back and drove home. Today we received a parking ticket for 12:37 to 14:38 at the royal free! I have tried to speak to the hospital but they aren't interested as parking is outsourced to a company called parking eye. I then called parking eye and they gave me 2 options to pay the £60 fine or provide prove of a ticket being purchased. Any ideas on where i go next?
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post Thu, 28 Jul 2022 - 18:46
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Redx
post Thu, 28 Jul 2022 - 20:52
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Complain to PALS , if necessary Complain strongly to the trust CEO , remind them both of their responsibilities under the NHS guidelines plus reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act 2010 , they should read fhe parking eye handbook, they are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their contractors

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/...king-principles

Don't take NO for an answer
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jibber123
post Fri, 29 Jul 2022 - 06:19
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Redx. Unfortunately I got a ticket at another hospital back in March and despite numerous emails and phone calls to the PALS, I've still not even got a response, other than they are very busy, to leave a message and they will get back to me. Its a joke unless someone actually dies or is seriously injured, no one seems to care or be bothered about doing anything these days. Its too easy for companies like this to charge people £60-£100 a time knowing there is little or no help to fight the case. Parking use to cost £1.50 it now costs £60-£100 a time! I've used several of these types of car park stations , hospitals etc. over the past couple of years nearly every time received a parking fine, which I've had to dispute. Why don't the government step in to stop them from extorting money from honest hard working people. Its basically another tax on using your car, but this time we had no alternative as my mum is unable to use public transport as she has very limited movement.
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Nosy Parker
post Fri, 29 Jul 2022 - 07:54
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I've had recent experience of The Royal Free and Parkingeye where the facts were similar to the case in this thread . The Royal Free PALS, Parking and Complaints teams were all dismissive of my argument that reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act required cancellation of the Parking Charge so I made a formal appeal to Parkingeye using exactly the same argument. Parkingeye initially refused the appeal (as they always do) but, as a BPA member, they had to give me a code to appeal to POPLA, which I did - using the same argument. Once the appeal was with POPLA, Parkingeye caved in and cancelled the penalty.

Obviously, each case turns on its own particular facts and I don't want to put the facts of my case up for public display, but if jibber123 will PM me, I'll be happy to help if I can
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Redx
post Fri, 29 Jul 2022 - 08:10
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Good points but a rant nonetheless, so for the reasons above you should complain to the CEO of the trusts involved , make a fuss , stand up and don't get floored , be a Zelensky, like a dog with a bone , keep going , complain strongly to your local MP , get them to write to the trust , and to the cabinet minister in charge, and to the DLUHG etc on your behalf , same for the badge holder who should do the same. I have been campaigning for 9 long years about this ,, as have many others on here and on mse forums. Pass your evidence and stories to coupon mad over on mse too, because she is very involved in this !

You ask why doesn't the government do something about it ? Well , they have and did , clearly you missed all the news items since 2015 ?

I pointed you at the new revised NHS guidelines by the government which clearly sets out free parking for disabled people etc , plus 12 years ago The EA2010 was enacted by the government of the day , so reasonable adjustment for people like me and this affected person You mentioned above , its the law ! It's not optional

Plus Sir Greg Knight MP put up a Private parking bill which passed through Parliament and was given Royal Assent in 2019 by our Queen , but due to legal challenges the new CoP is currently on hold pending the Judicial Review, but should be implemented by the end of next year. So change is a coming as Otis and Sam Cooke said

Rishi Sunak MP was dealing with it at one stage , followed by Neil O'brien MP until very recently, so don't say the government are doing nothing about it, but due to legal challenges, it takes time , hence those new NHS guidelines I pointed you at . We are also awaiting new appointments at the DLUHG , presumably in September or October

It's not me you should be ranting at , it's the trusts involved , it's your local MP , it's PALS , it's passing your evidence to coupon mad so she can use it to get a better system in place !

When you have done ALL of the above then maybe we can discuss future options , but to be ranting on here isn't helping your case , or helping other disabled people, so get doing with less moaning about a historically bad system which is currently being overhauled and dragged through legal channels and needs you to be proactive! Actions! Actions Actions

Those guidelines I gave you were the interim mandatory rules for trusts UNTIL the new CoP by the DLUHG arrives, hence why I gave you the advice earlier, which I did in good faith because you asked ! Don't shoot the messenger !

This post has been edited by Redx: Mon, 1 Aug 2022 - 08:57
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hcandersen
post Fri, 29 Jul 2022 - 08:11
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OP, first 2 steps:

1. Take deep breath;
2. Take another.

You've given a comprehensive account of your movements and we know you have received a PCN by post.

Now we must see this notice in all its glory, including all photos/times/dates but less your personal details and VRM. But confirm that the PCN is addressed to you pl.

Then we check the notice for compliance with applicable law AND we establish why it's been issued, so far we have no idea and are guessing.

I suggest you do not launch into any parallel and extra-procedural communications but stick with procedure.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 - 08:22
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jibber123
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 09:37
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Sorry if I went off on one but I'm tired of every time I go to a carpark I end up with a £60 parking ticket despite my best efforts to obey all the relevant rules in that car park. It just feels like a £60 charge to use a carpark now and unless you can give up hours of your time in phone calls and emails to fight it. I'm very busy at the moment as are many people in this modern day and age and these companies are praying on this fact that most people can't be bothered to fight it and just pay up. which in my eyes is criminal, people have been prosecuted for less! Yet these companies seem to be above to law.

I'm just trying to upload a copy of the PCN.

Again many thanks for the help and advise and sorry if it felt like an attack on you I'm just tired of this broken system.
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Redx
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 09:46
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Do not try to upload it , read the site rules and advice in Important topics, above

Host it on imgur or ibb or similar ( any file hosting site ). The more attachments allowed on here the more storage and bandwidth used , so the site bill increases ! The less data , the cheaper the fees , so people who add attachments increase the cost of running a free site ! Do the maths please

You are correct in your musings , the government has been trying to regulate it since about 2016 , these companies are trying to obfuscate and delay the government from their goals , hence the time delays, but what you wish is probably going to happen , eventually, but you need to realise that these changes take time and effort even if nobody is objecting, plus the pandemic has delayed a lot of changes , sometimes by years ! , not just parking issues ! These parasites companies wish to let the gravy train continue , the confusion to carry on

Our advice doesn't change, you have to attack on all fronts , it would have been easy for Zelensky to roll over , but despite setbacks those people are standing up and being counted, which you must do each and every time !

This post has been edited by Redx: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 09:53
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Slapdash
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 09:49
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You do sound very unlucky if you get one everytime.

A google drive folder set to sharing is a good way. Then upload the documents photos etc into that. It's then easy just to add more stuff when needed.

There isn't enough attachment space hete to unload much at all.
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jibber123
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 11:48
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Interestingly I've just spoken to my mum on the phone to get her to send a copy of the PCN to me so i can upload it, and she was about to ring up and pay as she didn't want the hassle. Being in her 80's and someone that has always paid her way and not been in debt she hates the thought of this hanging round so just wants it sorted and the simplest way to do this is to pay the £60 fine. They win every time!
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jibber123
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 12:53
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Please see the PCN below.

https://imgur.com/a/hRrVLJl

https://imgur.com/a/lP2F3Tf

Thanks again for your help it is very much appreciated.
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jibber123
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 13:20
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Yes Slapdash I seem to be very unlucky. Over the past 18 months I have been to two hospital carparks, two train stations and to my father-in-laws in Cockfosters twice and on all 6 occasions have received a parking ticket. I just feel like never going out in the car again as it results in a £60 ticket each time.
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hcandersen
post Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 13:54
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The PCN gives the parking event timings as 12.37 and 14.38, therefore in the context of your account we can forget everything that happened after you left the car park on the first occasion.

The hospital trust's website gives the following:

Royal Free Hospital
Please register your vehicle registration on arrival at either the Pond Street reception or security reception (next to A&E).

There are 15 blue badge bays at the Pond Street entrance and one blue badge bay outside A&E on lower ground floor. There are a further four blue badge bays on level 01 of our multi-storey park, accessed via Rowland Hill Street.

So OP, let's look at your account in this context:
Registration method: 'please register your vehicle registration'.
Who actually inputs data, the driver or someone on their behalf? You posted: I registered the badge with the security officer there which is what exactly, you input at the security reception or you gave your details to a third party who as far as you were concerned entered these into a system or whatever?
What confirmation did you receive or is this an open-loop system?
Very important details.

You parked where exactly?
There are 15 blue badge bays at the Pond Street entrance and one blue badge bay outside A&E on lower ground floor. There are a further four blue badge bays on level 01 of our multi-storey park, accessed via Rowland Hill Street.?

Pl leave all thoughts of wild and ill-informed letters to all and sundry until the facts are established!

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 13:57
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Nosy Parker
post Sat, 6 Aug 2022 - 07:32
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Well at least you don’t have to pay the station car park tickets as they aren’t enforceable against the keeper, only against the driver. And if you don’t tell the parking company who the driver is (you have no obligation to tell them) they’re not enforceable against anyone
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jibber123
post Sat, 6 Aug 2022 - 11:22
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hcandersen


When we first arrived we went to the lower A&E entrance and drop of area on the lower level just off of pond street where there are two 5min max drop of spaces.
We registered the car at the A&E entrance upon arrival as per the instructions given to us over the phone and on the website. There was a small window just inside the entrance door with two, what looked like security offices, sitting behind a desk. The lady asked if she could help us and I told her I'd like to book a vehicle with a blue badge in for parking. She asked to see the blue badge which i handed to her and she asked for the vehicle registration number which i gave to her and she wrote down on a clipboard in front of her with what appeared to be a list of other vehicles. I then returned to the car which was parked in the 5min drop off zone and moved it to disabled parking area on the level above, still just off of pond street, where there was about 12-15 disabled bays. I set the arrival time on the blue badge at 12:30 and displayed it in the windscreen as it tells you to.

Incidentally I spoke to my brother in law last night who is a chauffer. He received a parking picket at the royal free under exactly the same circumstances as this, with a blue badge being registered correctly upon arrival, and he know of several other taxis and private car hire people who have had similar problems there.

The system seems a little antiquated and open to errors whether accidental or malicious don't you think, if this is happening frequently.
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hcandersen
post Sat, 6 Aug 2022 - 14:27
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So now we know and you have your defence and if necessary you should take it to court and call witnesses and embarrass the hell out of the Trust and its contractor. And don't play games with keeper/driver, you want to be identified as the driver because only the driver has first-hand knowledge and is the most credible witness in court.

The driver cannot actually register their entitlement into a system, they rely upon a third party, in this case the trust's security contractor, to input data supplied by them. All drivers can do is provide the requested information which you did.

Don't dance on the head of a pin, send in your 'appeal' *and copy it to the NHS Trust.

By all accounts this problem is wider than just you. What might we find....

Security staff with a high 'churn' rate;
Poorly paid and equally poorly trained and supervised such that they do not enter data as required..?

Who knows what you case might expose?

* -post a draft here first pl.

This post has been edited by hcandersen: Sat, 6 Aug 2022 - 14:36
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nosferatu1001
post Sat, 6 Aug 2022 - 21:56
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Get PALS to cancel this. If they don't play ball, complain to the trusts head. Point out their staff are not doing their job properly and this is affecting vulnerable people.
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TMC Towcester
post Sun, 7 Aug 2022 - 11:28
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QUOTE (jibber123 @ Fri, 5 Aug 2022 - 10:37) *
Sorry if I went off on one but I'm tired of every time I go to a carpark I end up with a £60 parking ticket despite my best efforts to obey all the relevant rules in that car park. It just feels like a £60 charge to use a carpark now and unless you can give up hours of your time in phone calls and emails to fight it. I'm very busy at the moment as are many people in this modern day and age and these companies are praying on this fact that most people can't be bothered to fight it and just pay up. which in my eyes is criminal, people have been prosecuted for less! Yet these companies seem to be above to law.

I'm just trying to upload a copy of the PCN.

Again many thanks for the help and advise and sorry if it felt like an attack on you I'm just tired of this broken system.


Most people don't use Hampstead Heath car park using a disabled badge when they have no disabled person with them..................
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