County Court Claim from Gladstones Options

[SP66DCS]

Hi all,
I have received a “Claim Form” for a parking ticket that I received from a David Lloyd gym whilst I was a member there. The ticket is from 26/11/18 so it has taken a while to get to this point. Previously, towards the end of 2019, I was in contact with David Lloyd (who were happy to help cancel the ticket using an appeal code that I was not made aware of at the time of receiving the ticket), CPM (who have been reasonably helpful but still not able to do anything), and Gladstone Solicitors (which I feel is like speaking to a brick wall). For ease I have laid out all the relevant information below according to the First Steps guide:
Received a claim? Yes/No: Yes
Issue Date: 12/2/20
Have you Acknowledged the Claim?: not yet but I plan to
Total Amount Claimed : Approximately £250
Claimant’s Name: UK Car Park Management Limited
Solicitors Firm: Gladstones Solicitors Limited
Original Creditor: David Lloyd Oxford
Original Debt (eg. Credit card/Loan/Overdraft): £100
Particulars of Claim: The driver of the vehicle with registration XXXXXXX (the ‘vehicle’) parked in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the ‘contract’) at DAVID LLOYD OXFORD-ANPR-DAVID LLOYD OXFORD BUSINESS PARK GARSINGTON ROAD OXFORD OX4 2JY, on 26/11/2018 this incurring the parking charge (the ‘PCN’). The PCN was not paid with 28 days of issue. The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the Vehicle. Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £100 for the PCN, £60.00 contractual costs pursuant of the Contract and PCN terms and conditions, together with statutory interest of £14.50 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8.00% per annum, continuing at £0.04 per day.
Is the debt Statute Barred (have you had any contact with the creditor or claimant over the last 6 years?): I’ve been in contact with both over the phone.
List any letters you have sent (eg: CCA/ CPR ): I haven’t sent any letters.
Any Other Information or Background Details: my address on the Claim Form is slightly wrong, one letter wrong.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, many thanks!
(I can provide photos of the claim form if required)

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[Dave65]

The £60 maybe a issue for them, have you got a photo of the signage, does it mention extra costs.

[SP66DCS]

I do not have photos of the signage sadly. I was a student in Oxford and have since left the city so have no means of getting photos of signage.

[nosferatu1001]

Yes you do - local facebook groups, friends in the area, googlestreetview may have pictures.
This is a legal process, get your thinking cap on because if you fail to defend well you have a judgement to pay within 1 monht, or you suffer credit issues for 6 years.

[SP66DCS]

So I have now sent David Lloyd an email asking to send me a photograph of the signage in their car park. I have also requested SAR from UKCPM. Does anyone have any advice on what to do next? In the past I have spoken to Gladstones and I cannot remember if I admitted I was the driver (i probably did), i assume that this voids that way of appealing/defence. I have also been in contact with David Lloyd in the past and they were happy to cancel the charge but i had simply left it too late and Gladstones and CPM would not accept the appeal codes that David Lloyd supplied me with on numerous occasions.

This post has been edited by SP66DCS: Mon, 17 Feb 2020 - 15:57

[nosferatu1001]

Send a SAR to Gladstones then! Then you will know what was said.

As ever, MSE forum -> Parking -> NEWBIES thread; the second post has lots of defences to reference.

[SP66DCS]

I have read elsewhere that Gladstones simply won't supply me with a SAR and they will reply stating that they do not have to, is this true? I have also sent a SAR to UKCPM so I am awaiting that. I need to start writing my defence but I am going to struggle with this as I am not sure what has already been said etc. and do not want to contradict myself. Would a defence stating that David Lloyd and UKCPM were happy to cancel the parking ticket but Gladstones were insistent in pursuing the matter?

[nosferatu1001]

No, it is not true.
Look
You can either
- posit situations, prevaricating and wasting time
or
- JFDI

If they refuse - well, you now have more info than you had before. If they dont, you have more info.

Gladstones do not decide to pursue. They act under instructions from their CLIENT - UKCPM

This post has been edited by nosferatu1001: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 - 16:26

[SP66DCS]

I have now requested a SAR through the contact that I had at Gladstones who I have been in contact with before via email. I will also have photos of the parking signage in the car park at David Lloyd by the end of the day so will post on here when I have them.

[SP66DCS]

I have received the photos of the parking signs in the David Lloyd Car Park in Oxford. Please could someone advise me if there is anything I should be aware of within the signs. Thanks!

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2960/tZ3cEJ.jpg

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/2462/wUDveJ.jpg

[nosferatu1001]

Annoyingly a site work wont let me reach!

the main quesiton is - did they offer anything ot the actual driver? For example if they say "permit holders only", they dont offer anything to anyone who is NOT a permit holder - and if there is no offer, there is no contract.

[ManxRed]

I can see the images (unusual for my work police!), and they are offering terms only to David Lloyd Members and Guests only.

The only term is max stay 4 hours, no return within 1 hour. That's it. So when the claim says you were in breach of these conditions, what exactly was the 'contravention'? Were you there longer than 4 hours?

The small print states that non-payment will result in additional charges, but doesn't specify £60 anywhere. I'm guessing they'd need to demonstrate evidentially that £60 was actually incurred.

[SP66DCS]

I was there for longer than 4 hours and my number plate was caught on the ANPR system. My reason for appeal would be that David Lloyd now supply members with an appeal code that they can use straight away to appeal any PCN on request. I was not made aware of this at the time however, hence getting to this stage. David Lloyd and UKCPM were both happy to drop the charges, it is only Gladstones that kept pursuing the matter. Is there any defence in this or not?

[Tazmaina69]

I am sure Gladstones working under instructions for UKCPM & that UKCPM are working for David Lloyd, so if they have both agreed (UKCPM &David Lloyd) to drop the charge then Gladstones have absolutely not right to pursue the case off their own backs.
You need to get both UKCPM & David Lloyd to put in writing or instruct to Gladstones stop further action and cancel the PCN.

This post has been edited by Tazmaina69: Thu, 20 Feb 2020 - 16:00

[SP66DCS]

Would email proof of this be enough to use in a defence? Or simply stating that I was not made aware of the appeal code at the time of the PCN? Gladstones keep stating that I need to provide proof that my number plate was stored on a database at David Lloyd that allowed me to stay for longer than 4 hours. I was never made aware of this database whilst being a member at David Lloyd and when talking to David Lloyd they did not seem to be aware of any such database either.

[nosferatu1001]

It SHOULD be, you cannot talk in such absolute terms.
It would also ony be ONE element
Also: GLADSTONES do not make any decisions. They are INSTRUCTED by UKCPM. if you think otherwise, you are wrong. This means it is NOT Gladstones refusing you but UKCPM.
Get that info from David Lloyd IN WRITING - paper or email is fine of course - so when they state you shoul dhave done X, then you can point out that david lloyd has no clue what theyre talking about.

[SP66DCS]

So this is a reply to an email that i recieved from CPM via David Lloyd:

I’ve had a response, please see below CPM’s email:



Hi (name of David Lloyd Employee,



Simply advise he needs to appeal correctly. Ie- send a valid photo of his membership card. Even may be worth sending a picture of his contract to Gladstones to close the case.

As advised below the member has had several / multiple chances to reach out to the club to get this PCN revoked we now have incurred charges at CPM from this motorist leaving it to go to the solicitors, we would have been charged admin fees for this persons lack of urgency to remove this PCN.

***
At the time I did as the email stated and sent proof of my membership to the person i was emailing at Gladstones. This is the reply i received from Gladstones:

Good afternoon,

Thank you for your email this afternoon, however none of the images provided prove that the vehicle or its registration number were registered on the sites system and as such cannot verify that the vehicle was authorised to remain on site longer than four hours.

Please provide substantive evidence that the vehicle or its registration number were present on the facilities system and records as authorised for long stays.

***
As stated before, nobody at David Lloyd was aware of such 'sites systems'. Does anyone have any recommendations for a defence that I can start putting together? Thanks

[nosferatu1001]

"Get that info from David Lloyd IN WRITING - paper or email is fine of course - so when they state you shoul dhave done X, then you can point out that david lloyd has no clue what theyre talking about"
For general info on defences, you need to do your research - start with MSE Forum -> parking -> newbies -> post 2

[SP66DCS]

So i have now received my SAR from Gladstones with all my information and correspondence on. Could someone please help with how I am to use this information to my advantage.

I have also been in touch with David Lloyd again with regards to getting them to cancel the fine or trying to settle the fine before it gets to court. The manager there got in touch with their contact at UKCPM and this was their response:

The 1st appeal was rejected in December 2018. They appealed once more a whole year later! Which was outside on the initial 21 day appeal period to which he also had a response.

So within 1 year they appealed – had correspondence that their appeal was rejected, never once was they advised that this case was closed.

Appealed again on the 9th December 2019 and was responded to on the 20th December advising this was still not closed and was with Gladstone’s.

We have all the evidence here on the PCN that the member was sent correspondence a year apart regarding this PCN.

I physically cannot do anything with this PCN as it is with the solicitors and is 428 days old. I can request for our legal team to speak to Gladstone’s and request a settlement fee, but I cannot promise anything at this stage.


I have replied to the manager at David Lloyd stating that UKCPM can in fact cancel the court case through Gladstones or they could settle the case before it got to court.

[nosferatu1001]

3rd time...
post 18. You were asked to do something specific.

Get this info. Seriously, how many more times?!