dvla clamps |
dvla clamps |
Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 05:56
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#1
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Member Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 13 Jul 2011 Member No.: 48,200 |
I am a car trader, i have motor trade insurance, and all vehicles are purchased via main agents, put `in trade` using the yellow slip, and stay in my custody or control until sold.
Being `in trade` as i recall means i dont have to tax insure the car etc. If the car needs moving, or for demonstration i use trade plates. I can only keep 7 cars at home so i use a couple of private parking areas. I have a friend with a flat in each so use the many many available parking spaces as i dont have premises. Private car par, private land. So i went to my cars yesterday and the cars had been clamped, clearly reported to dvla. Maybe dvla hadnt checked they were in trade and it stated they had been reported to dvla and clamped. The company that clamped them i believe is NSL and they have a compound in west bromwich. A quick look on the gov.uk website tells me these cars need to be sorned, but how can i take a sorned car onto the road for a text drive? Or for an mot? So this morning i need to make some calls and am asking your incredible brains where i stand with this. i have read this.... https://www.gov.uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-...n/motor-traders It doesnt make good reading especially as i dont have `business premises` which actually means i cant park them at home without SORN, and if i do and their on a test drive im then also comitting anoffence This post has been edited by markadams: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 06:17 |
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Thu, 18 Jul 2019 - 05:56
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Wed, 2 Oct 2019 - 17:16
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#121
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Member Group: Members Posts: 33,610 Joined: 2 Apr 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 18,483 |
Im not trying to be awkard or flippant and maybe im missing something here, but the dvla have explained how they come to the figure....the only way they could have come to it is if i have to pay back 2 months backtax, june and july, i bought it in june and in july it was seen on a road. Therefore it was exempt for june becuase they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. Even if that is so, where does it leave you? You accept the offer believing it to be wrong, you ask them to amend it hoping they agree and don’t simply withdraw it or you go to court where their offer becomes moot. -------------------- Moderator
Any comments made do not constitute legal advice and should not be relied upon. No lawyer/client relationship should be assumed nor should any duty of care be owed. |
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Wed, 2 Oct 2019 - 17:27
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#122
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Member Group: Members Posts: 1,314 Joined: 3 Sep 2008 From: Not in the UK Member No.: 22,300 |
the only way they could have come to it is if i have to pay back 2 months backtax, june and july, i bought it in june and in july it was seen on a road. Therefore it was exempt for june becuase they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. The offence is being the person who uses or keeps an unlicensed vehicle. It doesn't matter where it is, on-road, off-road, locked in a private garage etc., unless it is exempt, a registered vehicle is required to be licensed. |
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Wed, 2 Oct 2019 - 22:44
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#123
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Member Group: Members Posts: 13,572 Joined: 28 Mar 2010 Member No.: 36,528 |
Im not trying to be awkard or flippant and maybe im missing something here, but the dvla have explained how they come to the figure....the only way they could have come to it is if i have to pay back 2 months backtax, june and july, i bought it in june and in july it was seen on a road. Therefore it was exempt for june becuase they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. If say a member of the public has a vehicle on SORN and it is seen on the road in June, the back tax demanded is not just for June, it is back to the time when it was last fully taxed. It is no use claiming it was off the road prior to June. You are being dealt with in the same way, back tax demanded from the time the car was last taxed. -------------------- |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 07:15
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#124
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Member Group: Members Posts: 28,687 Joined: 27 Nov 2007 Member No.: 15,642 |
Im not trying to be awkard or flippant and maybe im missing something here, but the dvla have explained how they come to the figure....the only way they could have come to it is if i have to pay back 2 months backtax, june and july, i bought it in june and in july it was seen on a road. Therefore it was exempt for june becuase they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. Yes, and thats because you owe from when the vehicle SHOULD HAVE been taxed - june - onwards. 2 months. Once you lost the exemption - and it sounds like it was never gained - you lose it back to the start. Not from that point forward That appears to be your fundamental failure to understand: they get you for the whole period. |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 08:12
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#125
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Member Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 26 Jun 2019 Member No.: 104,487 |
Under SORN the vehicle not being on a public road is irrelevant. Keep it on private land and it still needs to be licensed/taxed unless a SORN is in force.
For traders there seems to be a concession that as long as the private land is also business premises an exemption will apply. However you have admitted that the land fails the business premises test, so the exemption does not apply. While you might think DVLA are pulling a fast one there is no evidence that they are doing anything than acting properly. In any event, this will shortly become academic as their patience will run out and you will be off to court, where you can try your argument on the magistrates. This post has been edited by blackcross: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 08:13 |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 08:13
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#126
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Member Group: Members Posts: 311 Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,371 |
Im not trying to be awkard or flippant and maybe im missing something here, but the dvla have explained how they come to the figure....the only way they could have come to it is if i have to pay back 2 months backtax, june and july, i bought it in june and in july it was seen on a road. Therefore it was exempt for june becuase they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. They don't need to do anything "against june". If it goes to court, the ONLY thing they need to show is "This vehicle was on a public road at some point and was untaxed" and if you're found guilty of that, you'll be looking at the greater of £1000 or 5x the ANNUAL tax rate. Any previous "offer" goes out the window the moment you opt for court. It seems you don't dispute that the vehicle was in fact on the road and untaxed, so paying a month or two of tax that you don't think you should have been caught for is still going to be massively cheaper than paying the actual fine if it goes to court. |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 08:52
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#127
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
Oh dear
the ONLY thing they need to show is "This vehicle was on a public road at some point and was untaxed" No they just have to show it was untaxed and not SORN/exempt, they don't have to show it was on the road at all. you'll be looking at the greater of £1000 or 5x the ANNUAL tax rate No, he'll be lo0king at 50% of his RWI per offence, those are the maximum, the fine is means based. It seems you don't dispute that the vehicle was in fact on the road and untaxed They (not the) wasn't on the road though, they were not on the business premises which is part of the exemption criteria for traders. I agree paying the penalty would be cheaper though! This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 08:53 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 09:21
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#128
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Member Group: Members Posts: 65 Joined: 22 Feb 2015 Member No.: 75,893 |
they cannot bring a case against june that it was NOT on a public road in June....thats what i am trying to get at. They do not have to "bring a case against June." Vehicle tax is payable from when the last tax expired unless the vehicle is exempt. Your vehicle was caught outside business premises and so lost its exemption. As soon as the exemption was lost the entire tax due from when it last expired becomes payable, it's as simple as that. The law that states this is the "Vehicle Excise and Registration Act 1994." you'll be looking at the greater of £1000 or 5x the ANNUAL tax rate. No, he'll be lo0king at 50% of his RWI per offence, those are the maximum, the fine is means based. I think TonyS got it right: QUOTE (3)a person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable on summary conviction to an excise penalty of—
(a)level 3 on the standard scale, or (b)five times the amount of the vehicle excise duty chargeable (an amount equal to the annual rate of duty) ,whichever is the greater. |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 13:08
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#129
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Member Group: Members Posts: 311 Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Member No.: 78,371 |
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Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:35
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#130
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Member Group: Members Posts: 56,194 Joined: 9 Sep 2003 From: Warwickshire Member No.: 317 |
I think TonyS got it right: QUOTE (3)a person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) is liable on summary conviction to an excise penalty of— (a)level 3 on the standard scale, or (b)five times the amount of the vehicle excise duty chargeable (an amount equal to the annual rate of duty) ,whichever is the greater. Nope https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offenc...-excise-licence The L3 or 5x is clearly under the column titled MAXIMUM. Then fine starting points are A (1-3 months unpaid) B (4-6 months unpaid) C (7-12 months unpaid) and consider adding unpaid duty. This post has been edited by The Rookie: Thu, 3 Oct 2019 - 14:36 -------------------- There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!
S172's Rookies 1-0 Kent Council PCN's Rookies 1-0 Warwick Rookies 1-0 Birmingham PPC PCN's Rookies 10-0 PPC's |
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Sun, 6 Oct 2019 - 15:26
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#131
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Member Group: Life Member Posts: 24,212 Joined: 9 Sep 2004 From: Reading Member No.: 1,624 |
... there are only three exemptions in s.29, Vehicles Excise & Registration Act 1988, none of which apply to a vehicle that is 'in trade' unless the vehicle is kept by a motor trader or vehicle tester at business premises. It doesn't matter if it is on road, off road, seen or unseen, the DVLA will know if it is licensed or not. Are you telling me that a motor trader who has a vehicle in trade and is on his premises and has sent off the yellow slip to dvla is commiting an offence relating to road fund licence? Drugs are bad, m'kay? -------------------- Andy
Some people think that I make them feel stupid. To be fair, they deserve most of the credit. |
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