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Notice of Enforcement from Jacobs - Manchester Bus Lane
Astramaxvan
post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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Hi Everyone,

After some urgent help please - my Mum got this through the post yesterday and is having a bit of a panic about it as it says payment needed by tomorrow - she's already tried to call them and pay online, but no answer on their phones and their online payment doesn't work. Shet then called me to ask what to do (I'm a couple of hundred miles away so doing this over the phone to her!):

https://kbtaoq.am.files.1drv.com/y4mCkFFQxj...p;cropmode=none

She hasn't had anything through at all about this before - no PCN, no warrant of control, nothing about enforcement action - and she's not the sort of person to ignore mail...

Name, address and Car reg are correct - she's just checked the V5 and it's got the correct address on (she's been at the current address 4 years and did the V5 change just after she moved in, v5 date shows 11/16)

I've checked out the ticket number on the Manchester Council website and it looks genuine.

She's have just paid the £30 if she'd got gthe PCN - can we get this recovery cancelled and go back to the original cost?

From this topic http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=101106 I've asked her to call the TEC tomorrow morning and ask the following:

Establish the date that the Order for Recovery was authorised by the TEC?
The date of the warrant?
Against what address, on the warrant? (IE current or your previous address(es)?)
Whether or not the warrant has ever been reissued against your current address? And when?
The PCN number if you don't have it?
And ask them to email the appropriate forms for the PCN. Witness Statement for most parking or Statutory Declaration for moving traffic, with the applicable Out Of Time application. EG a bus lane will be require Statutory Declaration and Out Of Time


There is a form on the Manchester website to appeal the PCN - if we fill this out will it reset the Jacobs stuff, or will we need to submit the PE2/PE3 forms to do that?

I've asked he to do nothing else until she's spoken to the TEC...

Thanks :-)
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post Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23
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Neil B
post Wed, 21 Nov 2018 - 11:18
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Well ok, we are where we are.
It's not such a bad thing as there's now no rush or threat from bailiffs.

And this revelation sounds very hopeful indeed -
QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Tue, 20 Nov 2018 - 23:06) *
they then told her they'd sent all the previous letters to her old address (they confirmed the address, not just that it wasn't her current address)!

I asked my mum to dig out the paperwork from her speeding fine - dated 7th December 2017 (7 weeks before the bus lane incident) and that was addressed to her new address - to my mind proving that the V5/DVLA records were definitely up to date before Manchester Council sent out the original PCN (to the wrong address).

So yes m/c must have had the old address too.
But this so unusual as to be unbelievable? Such an old address for no apparent reason.

Can we just recheck some facts --

-- Moved 4 years ago
-- Updated V5 immediately ?
-- V5 shows November 2016 (only two years ago?) What the actual full 'docref' date?

---
Yes you (she) should still file OOT application but without the full, correct facts and running your draft past us first.

btw.
How has this address issue only just come to light if she's already asked TEC?
QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 11:23) *
Against what address, on the warrant? (IE current or your previous address(es)?)
Whether or not the warrant has ever been reissued against your current address? And when?

QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 18 Nov 2018 - 13:29) *
What TEC have on record re the address might, as an outside chance, reveal a cock-up by Manchester or DVLA. Then we'd
have something to work with.



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Neil B
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 11:36
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And the current position is ?

And the answers are ?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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Astramaxvan
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:22
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Hi, sorry it's gone quiet, just trying to get the exact answers out of my mum and getting pics of all the docs - just waiting for her to talk to Manchester council...

Although she's got the speeding fine to her address, getting a picture of the v5 inner page shows a date of 8the march 2018, which is odd...

https://1drv.ms/i/s!AhtzOW2zINRhged2U54L96fY3aOlgA

She definitely did her driving licence just aafter she moved, I was sure we'd done the v5 at the same time, but it doesn't look like it!
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Neil B
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:37
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:22) *
Although she's got the speeding fine to her address, getting a picture of the v5 inner page shows a date of 8the march 2018, which is odd...

Can't see how she got the speeding NIP then.

It's starting to sound like Mum is a bit confused.
Surely she'd remember updating V5 if it was this year?


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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peterguk
post Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:38
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QUOTE (Astramaxvan @ Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:22) *
She definitely did her driving licence just aafter she moved, I was sure we'd done the v5 at the same time, but it doesn't look like it!


Well the DOC REF DATE is as it is so as we suspected V5 not updated.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Thu, 22 Nov 2018 - 13:40


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Astramaxvan
post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 21:04
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Hi Everyone,

After a lot of double checking this weekend I think I've got the exact situation.

My Mum has asked TEC and Jacobs and they have both confirmed that all correspondence prior to the letter in my first post had been sent to the old address - my Mum had got confused before.

The V5 docref date is 8th March 2018 - i.e. after the offence.

Mum doesn't remember doing the V5 update this year, but the date on the V5 disagrees - however Mum did get a speeding fine (for the same (her only) car) in December last year.

so my PE2 is so far:
I did not receive any of the documentation regarding this incident - all the documentation (from the PCN up until the recent Notice of Enforcement) has been sent to a previous address and was not forwarded on. I had thought that I had updated the registered keepr details shortly after moving in to my current address, but I cannot be sure on this - although I received an NIP from Dorset police to this address in Decemner 2017 (6 weeks before the incident), the date for issue on my current V5 is the 8th March 2018.

and my PE3:
I did not recieve the PCN
I did not recieve the PCN as it was sent to my previous address, from which I am no longer recieving forwarded mail. I had thought that I had updated the registered keepr details shortly after moving in to my current address, but I cannot be sure on this - although I received an NIP from Dorset police to this address in Decemner 2017 (6 weeks before the incident), the date for issue on my current V5 is the 8th March 2018.

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Neil B
post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 21:12
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It needs some thinking about but I'm stuck for time at the mo.

Maybe tomorrow.

As she's paid there is no immediate threat and no time limit on filing this.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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peterguk
post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 21:13
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If the DOC REF DATE is 08/03/2018 then that is an undisputable fact. So the "but I cannot be sure on this" seems pointless since it is obvious the V5C was not updated 6 months prior when she moved.

The police often use the insurance database to find people if a first NIP is returned undelivered. If she did not update her V5C until March, it is a given certainty they didn't get her address from the PNC/DVLA in December 2017 since they didn't know she'd moved until March 2018!


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Neil B
post Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 21:18
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QUOTE (peterguk @ Sun, 25 Nov 2018 - 21:13) *
The police often use the insurance database to find people if a first NIP is returned undelivered. If she did not update her V5C until March, it is a given certainty they didn't get her address from the PNC/DVLA in December 2017 since they didn't know she'd moved until March 2018!

Perhaps that's a line of enquiry that might unravel this.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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