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Help! Parking Ticket (UK P.A.O. Leeds)
tallgirl
post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:06
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I have reading other posts with interest and I am wondering what people will make of a ticket I have been issued. Photo here: (for the reason - under with out valid permit or authority! the writing says 'photo of me leaving site')

The ticket was issued 2 minutes after I parked!
The carpark was for Maplin and other some other stores in Leeds. I did leave the site to use a post box but returned to use the stores. I did not read the detial on the signs so did not think leaving the site for a short time would result in a ticket.
(will get photo of sign later)
On reading the signs after the event the signs say parking is allowed for 1 hour and that leaving site is not allowed.

Does this need to be paid?

In leaving site I have not complied with the sign but it looks from others on the site that this is not enforceable??
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post Fri, 20 Jul 2007 - 12:06
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leegomery16
post Wed, 30 Jan 2008 - 20:43
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QUOTE (chadders @ Wed, 30 Jan 2008 - 19:21) *
QUOTE
i am right in thinking i can just ignore this & any letters sent to me, or do i need to contact PAO


Why not hook up with Abbie on "her day out" icon_idea.gif


I hope you mean in the platonic sense happy.gif


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jdfi
post Thu, 31 Jan 2008 - 12:54
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QUOTE (Abbie @ Tue, 29 Jan 2008 - 09:17) *
You are all very positive that they will not show up ......

However what happens if they do!????

Do i need a solicitor to fight my case or will I be ok on my own?



Abbie, those of us who know what you do for a living have every confidence in you.

If they do turn up, you state your case clearly and calmly, ask whatever questions you need to, and then sit back.


--------------------
Everyone on this forum (even those who may be professionally qualified as something) give advice that is their laymans' opinion. This is given without liability. Everyone will assume you are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and try to assist you if they can. Photos of signs/the area and scans of documents can help. Never throw anything away even if trivial! Tell all your friends about PePiPoo please!
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GretaGarbo
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 00:58
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Hello,

I'm new to this forum and have also been receiving nuisance letters for bogus parking charges from this dubious UK PAO outfit.

I have already sent them one letter - 'I acknowledge that I am the keeper...[and that]...you need to take this up with the driver,' and have received the predictable response, i.e a demand for even more money.

I have composed another letter to these pimp-like beings; if any of the regulars on this forum with experience of this kind of thing have a few minutes to spare to look this over - I'd appreciate any comments (I can supply background details / photos also...). If you'd be good enough to do so, l can send you attachments in a PM. I'm also writing to the DVLA to complain about them selling my personal data without 'reasonable cause'.

Jennifer10 who posted in this thread recently - I have photographs

Abbie - I can almost certainly be there when you have 'your day in court' - go girl!
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Grimsby Man
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 08:18
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Don't write to UK PAO Ltd at all,

Try and find the owner of the land and write to them. UK PAO LTd have to give a name of person who can cancel tickets, this can be achieved by writing to the FEE paying section of the DVLA Swansea SA99 1ZZ, do not email DVLA, they will not send all the information via email. Remember you must have cause to believe that Uk POA Ltd as acted unlawfully in asking for the details of the Vehicle.

Anybody in the Grimsby had a Parking Charge. I now have address for the owners of the retail park they Manage, PM me with your details and i will give you the address.

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Barnsley Boy
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 08:41
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I don't think UK PAO are members of the BPA.

I thought there was a DVLA initiative that only members of trade bodies could apply for RK details. The only trade body for ScumbagsPrivate Parking Companies is the BPA. How are UK PAO getting the information? If they are using a third party surely that is against the Data Protection Act.

Could anyone give me the definitive answer on this?
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bama
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 10:05
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Third parties are used regularly. e.g Ranger Services obtain for other PPCs.

As for PAO I suppose it depends on dates - and wether (IF) the DVLA does the checks for every (any) request...


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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Grimsby Man
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 11:21
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UK POA are not members of BPA

They need to be a member if using the electonic system. all UK PAO use is form V888/2

try to contest each search they make with the DLVA.







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zamzara
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 11:23
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QUOTE (Barnsley Boy @ Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 08:41) *
I don't think UK PAO are members of the BPA.

I thought there was a DVLA initiative that only members of trade bodies could apply for RK details. The only trade body for ScumbagsPrivate Parking Companies is the BPA. How are UK PAO getting the information? If they are using a third party surely that is against the Data Protection Act.

Could anyone give me the definitive answer on this?


The short answer is the announcement wasn't true.

Non-BPA members can still get the info, they just have to apply in writing instead of electronically.

The whole thing was a charade to give the appearance of proper regulation, without doing anything to upset the scam. Just like the SIA 'licences'.


--------------------
Posts by me are intended as a discussion of the issues involved, as these are of general interest to me and others on the forum. Although it is hoped such discussion will be of use to readers, before exposing yourself to risk of loss you should not rely on any principles discussed without confirming the situation with a qualified person.
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bama
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 11:42
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yep and Ranger (who brokers RK details for other PPCs) has an electronic link.

just a truth bypass by the DVLA - can't stop all that nice income from PPC requests !!


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
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GretaGarbo
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 12:17
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QUOTE (Grimsby Man @ Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 08:18) *
Don't write to UK PAO Ltd at all,

Try and find the owner of the land and write to them. UK PAO LTd have to give a name of person who can cancel tickets, this can be achieved by writing to the FEE paying section of the DVLA Swansea SA99 1ZZ, do not email DVLA, they will not send all the information via email. Remember you must have cause to believe that Uk POA Ltd as acted unlawfully in asking for the details of the Vehicle.


What advantage is there in writing to the owners of the land rather than the PPC? Surely they would just refer it back to UK PAO who are acting as their agents in the matter?
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leegomery16
post Fri, 15 Feb 2008 - 15:22
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The advantage is that you spell it out to them that if their agent continues to act unlawfully then any legal action will be taken against them as principal as well as their agent.


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Someone not paying VAT when they should? Email: HM Revenue & Customs

Laws, like men, are born to die. Justice is immortal.
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jdfi
post Sat, 16 Feb 2008 - 19:22
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And if there are two 'owners'.... as in a freeholder, and a business that is leasing it... then so much the better!


--------------------
Everyone on this forum (even those who may be professionally qualified as something) give advice that is their laymans' opinion. This is given without liability. Everyone will assume you are telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and try to assist you if they can. Photos of signs/the area and scans of documents can help. Never throw anything away even if trivial! Tell all your friends about PePiPoo please!
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GretaGarbo
post Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 17:59
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Ah ha, so that if it becomes necessary to warn that I will sue for harassment, then I should warn both / all?... sign13.gif
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leegomery16
post Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 20:15
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That depends on what you intend to do about it and the relationship of the parties, including the degree of control exercised.

If you intend to make a criminal complaint regarding harassment then this is very likely to be against the PPC only.

If you intend to take civil action for harassment then it's likely to only be against the PPC. If the PPC is an independent contractor engaged by the occupier and they do not exercise direct control over the PPC's actions then it is difficult to find any vicarious liability against them. It's not impossible but it is difficult.


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Someone not paying VAT when they should? Email: HM Revenue & Customs

Laws, like men, are born to die. Justice is immortal.
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GretaGarbo
post Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 21:50
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I see, thanks for that. In that case, I'm not sure what legal action I would take 'against them as principal as well as their agent' (ref a previous posting). I think I may be missing a point.... mellow.gif
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leegomery16
post Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 22:10
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QUOTE (GretaGarbo @ Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 21:50) *
I see, thanks for that. In that case, I'm not sure what legal action I would take 'against them as principal as well as their agent' (ref a previous posting). I think I may be missing a point.... mellow.gif


That would be a civil action for the return of any money you have paid, (a proportion of) which the occupier will have received as principal from the PPC as their agent.


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Someone not paying VAT when they should? Email: HM Revenue & Customs

Laws, like men, are born to die. Justice is immortal.
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ncmoody
post Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 22:21
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QUOTE (leegomery16 @ Mon, 18 Feb 2008 - 22:10) *
That would be a civil action for the return of any money you have paid, (a proportion of) which the occupier will have received as principal from the PPC as their agent.


From what I have read here and elsewhere, my understanding of the normal contractual arrangements is that the scumbag PPC's supply their service free of charge and finance their generosity by the outrageous fees they charge transgressors. I don't think the landowners get a cut of the receipts, just a free service.

If this is the case, is there any point in adding them to the moneyclaim?
and if so on what grounds?
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The Rookie
post Tue, 19 Feb 2008 - 14:55
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Because if they currently make nothing, and think they may end up paying for it, they will hopefully withdraw the agreement with the agents, thus slowly shutting down the PPC's!

Simon


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Abbie
post Fri, 22 Feb 2008 - 18:15
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yeah yeah just got home from work and wanted to share this all with you lot!

This is the letter i have just recieved word for word from UK PAO:-

"We are the claimant in this case and write to inform you that a vital witness supporting this claim is unable to attend court because he can longer be located. We would like to withdraw the claim against you so you will not need to attend the hearing on 4 April at 14.30."

Firstly the grammar needs a little work Steve.

Secondly dont think I wont be sending a copy of this letter to the Court on Monday morning and asking them to clarify whether you are lying or not....

Thirdly...witness to what??? Me not paying, me not being the driver of the vehicle..shame I would have liked to have met this witness as well.

I of course will return to you all with clarifcation as to whether the case has been dismissed but...I cannot help by breathing a sigh of relief....and wish to thank you all sooooo much fo all your help, advice and support. We have them running scared!
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leegomery16
post Fri, 22 Feb 2008 - 18:38
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That's terribly convenient.

What an absolute shame for them...........not!


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Someone not paying VAT when they should? Email: HM Revenue & Customs

Laws, like men, are born to die. Justice is immortal.
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