PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice Support health workers

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

Bus Lane PCN Enforcement Notice, North Street, Romford
carlosescobar
post Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 12:54
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



This case is related to the following Linked thread

Attached is an image of the violation. which has taken place on North Street in Romford near my work.
[attachment=51474:hav_0.jpg]

I approach North Street from Cedar Road and naturally look right to check oncoming traffic to turn into the road going Northbound. I seem to have missed the sign on the left which I couldn't see as the car is facing the road at an angle away from the sign.

[attachment=51475:hav_2.jpg] [attachment=51476:hav_3.jpg] [attachment=51477:hav_4.jpg] [attachment=51478:hav_5.jpg]

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated as it will help me with a bigger problem of multiple Enforcement Notices for the same offence.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >  
Start new topic
Replies (40 - 59)
Advertisement
post Tue, 24 Oct 2017 - 12:54
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 15:40
Post #41


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 11:35) *
You must get this posted today per PMB. X4

I disagree on not mentioning PCN flaws but too late now and doesn't much matter.

--
I think some assumptions are being made about the web page message.

Are these 4X entirely new PCN numbers or the same numbers as the original PCNs ?

Same numbers as the orignal PCNs. Also, received the recommendation to send them off separately too late. I sent them off together at 10:30. However, with proof of posting.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 16:32
Post #42


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 15:40) *
QUOTE (Neil B @ Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 11:35) *
You must get this posted today per PMB. X4

I disagree on not mentioning PCN flaws but too late now and doesn't much matter.

--
I think some assumptions are being made about the web page message.

Are these 4X entirely new PCN numbers or the same numbers as the original PCNs ?

Same numbers as the orignal PCNs. Also, received the recommendation to send them off separately too late. I sent them off together at 10:30. However, with proof of posting.

So it could be they've jumped the gun, as has been suggested, and issued 2nd Charge Certs = you win.

Or the webpage just hasn't updated to reflect replacement PCNs issued. = you win because it's a clear
deterrent/obstruction to you submitting reps.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 23:17
Post #43


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



OK. The council have now sent a charge certificate.

It seems my representations didn't arrive in time. However, I have proof of posting in time.

I also have a video/screenshots of the issue regarding my inability to make representations online.

What should I do now? Shall I ignore the Charge certificate and wait to make another SD. If so what should I state on the form?

I tried to make representations online but the authority stated charge certificates had already been sent. This was a clear deterrent/obstruction to me submitting reps. After informing the authority by email I also sent representations by post and have proof of postage in time.

Here is the charge certificate:





This post has been edited by carlosescobar: Sun, 4 Feb 2018 - 23:18
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:33
Post #44


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



What make you say your reps did not arrive in time?


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:47
Post #45


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:33) *
What make you say your reps did not arrive in time?

This is the first thing I've received from the council since sending off my reps in November.

Not received any decision regarding my representations or an opportunity to appeal to the adjudicator.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Incandescent
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:58
Post #46


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 20,916
Joined: 22 Apr 2012
Member No.: 54,455



QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:33) *
What make you say your reps did not arrive in time?

This is the first thing I've received from the council since sending off my reps in November.

Not received any decision regarding my representations or an opportunity to appeal to the adjudicator.

OK, so now you have to wait for the Order for Recovery which will be sent out when they register the debt at the TEC at Northampton. The form to make a Statutory Declaration will be included. You tick the box for "I made reps but did not receive a rejection letter" and send it off. Best to call them occasionally to check if it has been sent or not.
Alternative is to pay the CC, but not recommended here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 16:41
Post #47


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



No time to read back, so just to check -

The new EN and CC have been sent to your new address?

--
Proceed per Incandescent.
The result this time, in said circumstances, is that when CC revoked the matter must be referred
to the adjudicator for 'directions'.

The Tribunal has issued standing instructions for how Councils should then proceed. It is then that
we'll discover whether they claim to have received your reps and replied or not received your reps
or claim to have received them late.

Then we deal with it.



--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 20:26
Post #48


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



I have received a Notice of Rejection for an identical PCN (same offence) for reps which were sent in the same envelope as the one that has gone to Charge Certificate stage. This suggests the council did receive my representations for all the PCNs but have chosen to ignore some of them them.

Please see the Notice of Rejection documents below:















I wish to make an appeal. Is there anything to add to my previous statement with regards the Notice of Rejection?

This post has been edited by carlosescobar: Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 20:29
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 21:05
Post #49


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



The letter asks you to send your appeal to Sale!!!! I might be tempted to do so and see what transpires.

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 21:29
Post #50


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 21:05) *
The letter asks you to send your appeal to Sale!!!! I might be tempted to do so and see what transpires.

Mick

I suspect it would be returned by Royal Mail as that address does not exist.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mad Mick V
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 22:10
Post #51


Member


Group: Closed
Posts: 9,710
Joined: 28 Mar 2007
Member No.: 11,355



We had several successful appeals on the wrong Tribunal address being given when they changed from (Surrey?). I believe it was often a double whammy a PI and the papers being delivered OOT to the correct address (neither being the appellants fault).

This is a bus lane contravention with no PIs.

The appeal papers give the correct Nottingham address but is there any mileage in this?

Mick
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 23:14
Post #52


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 22:10) *
We had several successful appeals on the wrong Tribunal address being given when they changed from (Surrey?). I believe it was often a double whammy a PI and the papers being delivered OOT to the correct address (neither being the appellants fault).

This is a bus lane contravention with no PIs.

The appeal papers give the correct Nottingham address but is there any mileage in this?

Mick


I think so. The NOR is required to give the information the appeal form is not part of that


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 22:36
Post #53


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 23:14) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 22:10) *
We had several successful appeals on the wrong Tribunal address being given when they changed from (Surrey?). I believe it was often a double whammy a PI and the papers being delivered OOT to the correct address (neither being the appellants fault).

This is a bus lane contravention with no PIs.

The appeal papers give the correct Nottingham address but is there any mileage in this?

Mick


I think so. The NOR is required to give the information the appeal form is not part of that


Should I send the appeal to the Sale address using the form provided even though it has the correct address on it? Or would it just be best to appeal online using the statement/evidence collected during this thread. I feel I have a strong case with regards the issues found with the EN and signage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 23:35
Post #54


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Wed, 21 Mar 2018 - 22:36) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 23:14) *
QUOTE (Mad Mick V @ Sun, 18 Mar 2018 - 22:10) *
We had several successful appeals on the wrong Tribunal address being given when they changed from (Surrey?). I believe it was often a double whammy a PI and the papers being delivered OOT to the correct address (neither being the appellants fault).

This is a bus lane contravention with no PIs.

The appeal papers give the correct Nottingham address but is there any mileage in this?

Mick


I think so. The NOR is required to give the information the appeal form is not part of that


Should I send the appeal to the Sale address using the form provided even though it has the correct address on it? Or would it just be best to appeal online using the statement/evidence collected during this thread. I feel I have a strong case with regards the issues found with the EN and signage.


Appeal online. No point in risking a charge cert and the hassle that involves


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 11:57
Post #55


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (Incandescent @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 13:58) *
QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:47) *
QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Mon, 5 Feb 2018 - 12:33) *
What make you say your reps did not arrive in time?

This is the first thing I've received from the council since sending off my reps in November.

Not received any decision regarding my representations or an opportunity to appeal to the adjudicator.

OK, so now you have to wait for the Order for Recovery which will be sent out when they register the debt at the TEC at Northampton. The form to make a Statutory Declaration will be included. You tick the box for "I made reps but did not receive a rejection letter" and send it off. Best to call them occasionally to check if it has been sent or not.
Alternative is to pay the CC, but not recommended here.

OK. I've now received the Order for Recovery. What should I write on the Statutory Declaration in the reason statement box? Should I keep it simple or add the problems not being allowed to submit my reps online together with my proof of sending by post. Should I also mention the fact that another PCN sent in the same envelope was received and went to adjudication?

This post has been edited by carlosescobar: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:00
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cp8759
post Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:28
Post #56


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38,006
Joined: 3 Dec 2010
Member No.: 42,618



QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:57) *
OK. I've now received the Order for Recovery. What should I write on the Statutory Declaration in the reason statement box? Should I keep it simple or add the problems not being allowed to submit my reps online together with my proof of sending by post. Should I also mention the fact that another PCN sent in the same envelope was received and went to adjudication?

This is a tick-box exercise, you're not trying to persuade anyone that what you say is true, because you're making a statutory declaration on penalty of criminal prosecution. There is no need to add anything beyond the fact that you made reps and did not receive a reply.


--------------------
If you would like assistance with a penalty charge notice, please post a thread on https://www.ftla.uk/index.php
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 14:57
Post #57


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (cp8759 @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 13:28) *
QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Mon, 23 Apr 2018 - 12:57) *
OK. I've now received the Order for Recovery. What should I write on the Statutory Declaration in the reason statement box? Should I keep it simple or add the problems not being allowed to submit my reps online together with my proof of sending by post. Should I also mention the fact that another PCN sent in the same envelope was received and went to adjudication?

This is a tick-box exercise, you're not trying to persuade anyone that what you say is true, because you're making a statutory declaration on penalty of criminal prosecution. There is no need to add anything beyond the fact that you made reps and did not receive a reply.


I received a revocation order:




QUOTE (PASTMYBEST @ Tue, 14 Nov 2017 - 00:48) *
Send by post get and keep safe a free proof of posting. Lets not let this get messy. You are going to have to do another statutory declaration. But this time that you made representations in time but the authority did not respond
This will re set once again and go before an adjudicator for direction.

So you must make these reps in time. That is Thursday (the operative date being date of service) So you post tomorrow get proof of posting they get it Thursday (service works both ways) and you can make a ligit SD

Kin idiots have handed you a win


This appears to have been reset and not gone before an adjudicator for direction. How have I been handed a win?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Neil B
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 15:22
Post #58


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 29,268
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Member No.: 16,671



QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 15:57) *
[This appears to have been reset and not gone before an adjudicator for direction.

How do you know? You've only shown the revoking Order.

It's dated 1st May ??? Explain please.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
carlosescobar
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 17:44
Post #59


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 86
Joined: 27 Sep 2017
Member No.: 94,234



QUOTE (Neil B @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 16:22) *
QUOTE (carlosescobar @ Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 15:57) *
[This appears to have been reset and not gone before an adjudicator for direction.

How do you know? You've only shown the revoking Order.

It's dated 1st May ??? Explain please.

I received a notice of rejection from the council last week.

Sorry, I was in the middle of uploading this. Please see below:













The council now claim to have sent a notice of rejection on 01/12/2017. I never received this, hence the need to make a Statutory Declaration after a charge certificate was issued.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PASTMYBEST
post Sun, 17 Jun 2018 - 19:00
Post #60


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 26,655
Joined: 6 Nov 2014
Member No.: 74,048



They did send a NoR on the 6th of march it is posted in this thread, but regardless the revocation order cancels the CC and EN so they need to send a new EN not a NoR against representations you have not yet made.


--------------------
All advice is given freely. It is given without guarantee and responsibility for its use rests with the user
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

4 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Thursday, 28th March 2024 - 22:17
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.
IPS Driver Error

IPS Driver Error

There appears to be an error with the database.
You can try to refresh the page by clicking here