PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

DVLA V5, Penalty fine for no reason
chat2kat
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:38
Post #1


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



Desperately upset at how DVLA are treating me , I will try and keep this as short as possible, I part ex my car with the car people in Manchester in January , I sent the yellow V5 slip to DVLA but since then I have received 2 fines for not insuring the car I no longer owned ? I filled out all the details required on one of the forms they sent with proof of sale of car date dealer etc , but when they wrote back they had already escalated matters to their fines dept (who you cannot seek to ) so I wrote an appeal letter explaining i defiantly returned the slip and yet more proof of me no longer owning the vehicle . last week I received an acknowledgment slip say I was no longer the owner followed the next day by another notification of fine as they said enforcement had already started before they sent me this slip so the fine still stands Im scared I will have huge fines /bailiffs knocking on my door and the fear of a court appearance for doing absolutely nothing wrong , How can they justify this demand when I have done everything by the book ?any advise would be greatly appreciated thank you Kat

This post has been edited by chat2kat: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:40
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Advertisement
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 18:38
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
The Rookie
post Tue, 22 May 2018 - 20:22
Post #2


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,724
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



The penalty notices from DVLA are an offer to pay to avoid court action, they can’t get Bailiffs out without first taking you to court and them finding you guilty and then you not paying the fine set by the court.


This post has been edited by The Rookie: Tue, 22 May 2018 - 20:22


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jezt
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 10:09
Post #3


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Dec 2011
Member No.: 51,661



I'm 99.9% sure there has been a thread on here (from some time ago though) of an almost identical problem.
The conclusion was (IIRC) that by sending (the correct part of the form with the correct details) you have completed your legal obligation as required by the information (and requests) on the V5, i.e. filling in the details and sending to DVLA.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 10:29
Post #4


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



Thanks for the replies .
It's very reassuring to know bailiffs won't be knocking on my door , but still very scary having the threat of court action hanging over me , I just don't know how they can get away with being judge and jury as to decide for themselves that I have not sent in the correct paperwork which I know for a fact I did ,I can't see anywhere else a thread on this topic but most people seem
To think the DVLA can't enforce , but not
Sure I could live with the thought of going to court in front of a judge with someone calling me a liar 😭
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 10:40
Post #5


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,950
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 11:29) *
Thanks for the replies .
It's very reassuring to know bailiffs won't be knocking on my door , but still very scary having the threat of court action hanging over me , I just don't know how they can get away with being judge and jury as to decide for themselves that I have not sent in the correct paperwork which I know for a fact I did ,I can't see anywhere else a thread on this topic but most people seem
To think the DVLA can't enforce , but not
Sure I could live with the thought of going to court in front of a judge with someone calling me a liar 😭


Your problem is that unlike you who did inform DVLA of change of keeper, there are some naughty people who do not. Do you have proof of postage? If it went to court you would need to convince the court that you posted the notification. Although there is no legal obligation to do so, the V5 advises to contact DVLA if, within (IIRC) 28 days, you have not received notification from DVLA that they received your change of keeper request. Did you do this?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 11:00
Post #6


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



I'm
Afraid I did not get proof of postage , I had no idea I had to nor did I even know I would get an acknowledgement slip , just assumed once I had sent my yellow slip that was the end of the matter , I can't believe in this day and age these tings are not automated .
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 11:14
Post #7


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,724
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



How could it be automated? How would it know of the change of keeper without the keeper telling them?

You could have done it online and get immediate confirmation.....


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 11:20
Post #8


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



I didn't know you could
Do it online , the car people never mentioned that option or I would of done that , I think I'm just going to end up paying the £50 before it goes up to £100 , couldn't imagine how much court fees would be if for some reason they don't believe me , reality is they have you in a knot And it's so unfair 😡
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jezt
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 11:45
Post #9


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Dec 2011
Member No.: 51,661



Don't pay. You do not have to. You have done nothing wrong as far as I'm concerned... others may disagree, however. I'm still trying to find the thread I mentioned earlier.
You have done your legal obligation. Even if, (and that's a very big IF), it went to court, by saying you filled in the details and posted it is part of the balance of probabilities... they CANNOT prove in any way that you did, or did not, send it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:00
Post #10


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,943
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



The Interpretation Act says that a letter posted First Class is deemed delivered two business days later

The DVLA tries to rely on a loophole that the legislation regarding vehicle changes specifically requires that the form is delivered, not sent
Sometimes the magistrates go along with them - sometimes they don't
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jezt
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:03
Post #11


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 34
Joined: 8 Dec 2011
Member No.: 51,661



Not the one I was looking for, but I'll keeping searching.

One link
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:19
Post #12


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



That's a chance I can't afford to take Redivi, it's basically saying its 50/50 when you get to court, Thankyou for looking Jeztbut it still seems that it all depends on what the court decides ? This seems so ambiguous , I'm either right or wrong I can't understand it , why doesn't the DVLA say they never receive anyone's slips and make a fortune Praying on people's fears of court action 😡

Peter guy I understand your point , but when does it become permissible that's a government body can hand out fines for no reason and without proof ? Innocent before proven guilty ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
666
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:38
Post #13


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,004
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
Member No.: 47,602



QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:00) *
I'm
Afraid I did not get proof of postage , I had no idea I had to nor did I even know I would get an acknowledgement slip , just assumed once I had sent my yellow slip that was the end of the matter

If you had read the yellow slip before signing and posting it, you would have known ...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Redivi
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:47
Post #14


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,943
Joined: 31 Jan 2018
Member No.: 96,238



The regulations don't appear to leave any defence for the unfortunate motorist that trusts the Post Office and the DVLA not to lose his documents

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/20/made
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/27...ulation/22/made

This looks like yet another example of the Law of Unintended Consequences

Legislation that imposes draconian punishments on motorists that do their best and, at worst, make an innocent mistake but can be ignored by the real targets that have no intention of insuring their vehicles
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 12:58
Post #15


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



Well having read that , I will kiss goodbye to £50 , disgusted at DVLA !!!!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
NewJudge
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:00
Post #16


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 1,562
Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Member No.: 23,623



QUOTE (Redivi @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:00) *
The Interpretation Act says that a letter posted First Class is deemed delivered two business days later

When relying on that provision the sender, if challenged, would normally have to demonstrate to the court (beyond simply saying "I sent it") that the item was actually posted. The OP cannot do this.
QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:19) *
....why doesn't the DVLA say they never receive anyone's slips and make a fortune Praying on people's fears of court action 😡

The fact that they clearly don't do this demonstrates that your suspicions are unfounded.
QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:19) *
...but when does it become permissible that's a government body can hand out fines for no reason and without proof ? Innocent before proven guilty ?

They are not doing it for no reason. They are doing it because, they say, you failed to comply with the law. You are indeed innocent until proven guilty. If you took this matter to court the DVLA would say that under the law you are obliged to inform them of a change of keeper. They would also say that no notification of any such change has been received. The opportunity is then yours to show that you did do all you could to tell them of the change. Unfortunately you don't have much in the way of evidence to show that you informed them other than to say that you did. The Magistrates might believe you, they might not, but if it was that easy nobody would ever be convicted of the offence. As with many such things it is always advisable to secure some sort of evidence of your actions and the DVLA helps by providing acknowledgements of changes they receive. Alas you failed to get proof of posting and also failed to notice that you should expect an acknowledgement when your form was received. Without any evidence to rebut the allegation you would almost certainly face conviction.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Rookie
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:29
Post #17


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 39,724
Joined: 9 Sep 2003
From: Warwickshire
Member No.: 317



QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:19) *
but when does it become permissible that's a government body can hand out fines for no reason and without proof ? Innocent before proven guilty ?

As I pointed out above, its not a fine, it a penalty payment you can make to dispose of the matter, they need no proof (beyond acting reasonably) to do so, if you are innocent you are free to take it to court where they would have to prove their case. Exactly the same as many motoring offences have an fixed penalty offer that the Police can make available. For those who accept their guilt its a cost effective (for them and for 'the system' as a whole) means of disposing of the case.

Their are many parts of government that use such penalty payments, for example the banks keep cropping up where they've agreed to pay for their latest misdemeanour or other rather than go to the cost of a court case.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:49
Post #18


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



I'm assuming the letter I have from the car people saying I posted the yellow slip will make no difference?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
peterguk
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:52
Post #19


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 12,950
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Member No.: 14,720



QUOTE (chat2kat @ Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:49) *
I'm assuming the letter I have from the car people saying I posted the yellow slip will make no difference?


How do they KNOW you posted it?

Did they witness you fill it in, insert into envelope and post into post box? If yes, then it would be good evidence of posting.

This post has been edited by peterguk: Wed, 23 May 2018 - 14:02


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
chat2kat
post Wed, 23 May 2018 - 13:54
Post #20


New Member


Group: Members
Posts: 8
Joined: 22 May 2018
Member No.: 98,069



Is there a way of posting the letter the car people sent me on here , not great with computers I'm afraid ?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 22nd October 2018 - 06:37
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.