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weird insurance company, legal standing re charging ins co salvage storage
pjb12345
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 08:19
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initally had my bike stolen gave crime numbers etc ,we then see bike advertised inform police but they havent got resources to get it so me and mate go around and somehow retrieve bike .
i inform ins co who have already paid out give a statement to police on sellers of bike etc
we inform ins co we might want to buy bike off them at same time mention to them were we not able to come to a deal we would charge them salvage and storage fees .
ins co very difficult insist if i want to keep bike they would need engineers report and fresh mot even though parts were just missing .however they would sell it at auction then no one would have to abide by those conditions .

that i felt was discimination and have started a complaint about that .

they also want to charge me an excessive amount with little regard for condition , double to what it is worth yet will sell at at auction and wont tell me the reserve , in fact one of their advisors told me to bid on it at auction and liase with salvage company.

we are kind of annoyed with their stance as we put ourselves at risk getting this bike back and they seem to give any regard to that , in fact penalise us .
so i am looking at options to their appauling attitude .
can i charge them salvage and storage before i release bike back to them .
And any other options
tia

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post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 08:19
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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 08:52
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Bike is owned by insurance company, they paid out, they own it, they can do what they want with it, simples.
Cannot see where discrimination comes into it, they own an item that they put a value on.
The buyer (you) can accept, negotiate or reject.
They can dispose of it, whether by auction, selling it to an interested party or scrapping is their choice.

Got to say that your actions seem foolhardy.
By retrieving the bike after being paid out, you may have been stealing a legally owned item.
Would have been a trifle red faced if the insurance had turned round and said we sold the bike to that guy.
You can charge reasonable storage fees but only after giving reasonable notice and the opportunity for the insurance to collect their property, refusing to release potentially leaves you in the mire.
Not too mention what seems to be a "Can I buy it back" plea alongside a demand for salvage and storage fees ???
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pjb12345
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 09:43
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oh perhaps i gave wrong impression ,bloke selling bike was known scoraty , has form ,,etc etc .still showing as stolen before we went and met him at some ginnel ,would not meet us at his house .thanks for ur input
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DancingDad
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 10:13
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QUOTE (pjb12345 @ Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 10:43) *
oh perhaps i gave wrong impression ,bloke selling bike was known scoraty , has form ,,etc etc .still showing as stolen before we went and met him at some ginnel ,would not meet us at his house .thanks for ur input

Being honest, I would possibly have done the same (or worse) in my younger days.
But it changes not a lot.
It still wasn't your bike to retrieve, it is still the insurance company's property and you are asking them a favour to sell it back to you.
No point getting upset with them or trying to hold them to ransom.
Either you can agree a value with them or you can't.
If you can't and are still interested, get details of the auction, you may have the last laugh or may find that the market values the bike as highly as the insurance.

To me the most irritating thing is that you gave the police a good lead to get the person you suspected of stealing the bike and they did nothing!
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pjb12345
post Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 20:55
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ah yes we gave police a time and place for the meet up ,no resources available ,,was the answer now who u blame as i beleive south yorks police are 600 men down from a few years ago.
thats a lot of manpower ,
all the best
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pjb12345
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 08:51
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well ins co getting tricky they got salvage company to give me a call to arrange collection , however early on in e mails i said that if we could not agree a price and conditions there would be a recovery fee of 150 and storage fees of 20 per day payable .
salvage co will not give me a time to collect expect someone to be in all day .
that may not be practical to be in all day .
i understand this is their property ,however its me storing it and me having to be in to collect and me who did the recovery .i bet this is seen as 2 seperate matters .
Can i demand the fees be paid before release of bike. THEY AMOUNT TO 270
tia





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DancingDad
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 09:14
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Salvage in the legal sense only applies to maritime recovery AFAIK.

You are entitled to charge reasonable storage fees having given the other party notice of them.
Ultimately it may come down to a court deciding whether fees and notice were reasonable.
I'm not going to second guess that one, would be a small claims job.

Recovery fee ????
Not sure any claim exists, it could be argued that you stole the bike and are now demanding a ransom.

Not releasing the bike possibly brings S54 of POFA 2012 into play, ie you cannot prevent someone legally entitled to remove the vehicle to do so.
You can demand reasonable arrangements that do not put you out or even costs for your time if times they want do not suit but again, likely to end up as a court claim.

Sorry but to me you are on dodgy ground and have been from the moment you decided to recover the bike (which was no longer your property) yourself.
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The Rookie
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 10:40
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QUOTE (pjb12345 @ Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 09:51) *
i said that if we could not agree a price and conditions there would be a recovery fee of 150 and storage fees of 20 per day payable .

Was never going to be the right approach to getting them on your side. Inevitably they have dug their heels in.

You can't prevent the rightful owner from recovering their property by making up sums they must pay you, why £150, why not £1500 after all?

You may get some mileage out of talking nicely to the salvage company who may be minded to aid you in getting access to buying the salvaged car.


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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 11:34
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If the insurance company were aware you had the bike and took an unreasonable amount of time to collect it, then I can see why storage fees would be appropriate.

However, here you are skating dangerously close to handling stolen goods.

QUOTE
22 Handling stolen goods.
(1)A person handles stolen goods if (otherwise than in the course of the stealing) knowing or believing them to be stolen goods he dishonestly receives the goods, or dishonestly undertakes or assists in their retention, removal, disposal or realisation by or for the benefit of another person, or if he arranges to do so.
(2)A person guilty of handling stolen goods shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.


I appreciate that you still view it as your bike, but the truth is that it isn't. You can't decide the recovery method on a bike that doesn't belong to you, and if you do, you should hand it over to the owner as soon as possible. If you have incurred reasonable costs then quite possibly the insurance company may pay them as a gesture of goodwill. But demanding arbitrary charges isn't going to end well.
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PASTMYBEST
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 11:40
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What happens if you don't hand over the bike and the insurance co decide to tell the police the location of THEIR property I bet there will be resources available then


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Spandex
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 12:08
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QUOTE (pjb12345 @ Sat, 13 Apr 2019 - 09:19) *
we inform ins co we might want to buy bike off them at same time mention to them were we not able to come to a deal we would charge them salvage and storage fees .

Just so we're clear, what you're saying is that you tried to blackmail the insurance company into giving you a good deal on the bike by (amusingly) threatening to charge them 'salvage' and storage fees? And now that the blackmail attempt has failed, you're asking for advice on how to carry out your threat?
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pjb12345
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 14:23
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not at all spandex ,,whats irked me tbh is being discriminated against ,applying conditions on me mot and engineers report and value ,at same time prepared to take it to auction get much less for it and sell to anyone without any conditions .
rubbs me up wrong way when ive retrieved it for them .

how to destroy goodwill in one action by the ins co
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notmeatloaf
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 15:57
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Firstly, its not discrimination unless you think they're treating you less fairly because of a protected characteristic under the Equality Act.

Secondly, you're asking them to sell you a motorbike at presumably a discounted rate because there are parts missing. But you won't let them see the bike without paying you, or commission an independent report into its current state. You expect them to grant you some slack because you recovered the bike for them, but because the police weren't there they need to take your word for it.

Without being rude, most people who steal and resell motorbikes probably don't just give it back because you turn up with a mate and demand it.

Obviously I take your story at face value but I'm surprised your insurance company have the patience to apparently making a genuine attempt to sell it to you. They are taking a lot of what you have said on trust. If they've lost your goodwill by not taking the current state of the motorbike either on trust or after paying you arbitrary recovery and storage fees, then I think you are asking a lot.
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Glacier2
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 16:00
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You had no business recovering what was not your bike.

If I was the insurance company I would not be so patient. I am surprised the old bill have not been round for a chat.
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pjb12345
post Mon, 15 Apr 2019 - 16:52
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perhaps i should explain further save people jumping to all sorts of conclusions mmn ,weve sent them many pictures to acess the bike showed them whats missing , they can view the bike any time .police have been around long time after event mind ,, to get a statement re the offender etc.

there are obviously crime numbers given etc etc etc .well it seems they can have it back no issues ,,i might even get some storage fees .but kind of putts u off retrieving what was stolen after this lot of carry on .

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The Rookie
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 09:33
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And all totally irrelevant, and when I say totally I mean completely and utterly and absolutely as well.

Can I just come to you and insist you sell me something I want, your fridge freezer maybe? No.

Its their property, they have the whip hand, if you want their help its time to start playing by their rules or they'll just take their football home.


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There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
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Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 10-0 PPC's
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notmeatloaf
post Tue, 16 Apr 2019 - 10:55
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Remember you know it was stolen and recovered.

However, to an outside observer, it is quite possible someone with fewer scruples could have reported the bike stolen, shoved the bike in a shed, then after a while "retrieving" the bike which is now worth much less and trying to buy it back from the insurance company.

Against you is why said scroat would hang on to the bike for so long - my understanding is they try and get rid of it ASAP - and why they would remove parts from a bike they intended to sell.

The insurance company seem to be taking you on your word, but I'd imagine they have a point where they lose patience.
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