PePiPoo Helping the motorist get justice

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

PCN for being in a bus lane B&D, Query on when bus lane enforcement started
Marie_78
post Sat, 4 Aug 2012 - 10:50
Post #1


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Hi, hoping for some help on the above.

I received a PCN dated 03/08/2012 for being in a bus lane on 17/07/2012 at 21.30hrs and they have pictures of my car.

I drive this road rather frequently and know that usually you can us the bus lane after 7pm any day and so I didn't think this was a problem. I was only in the lane for about 50 yards as I've since viewed the evidence on line as I was overtaking a car turning into a petrol station.

I am aware that the last week or so the borough has bus lane enforcements in place so you shouldn't use any bus lane at any time (I think due to the olympics even though were nowhere near any venues). But what they don't tell you is when these actually came into place. I've searched their website and cannot find anything so would like some help on finding this out. I haven't contacted them as of yet as the site tells you not to.

But I feel this is an error either as I'm not sure the enforcements had started by this date, if they had I would have followed them and not gone into the bus lane. Or because I was only in there at the end overtaking a turning car and therefore was of a minimal time.
I'd really appreciate any help on what to do.

Thanks

Marie.

This post has been edited by Marie_78: Sat, 4 Aug 2012 - 14:45
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image


Attached Image
Attached Image
 
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V  < 1 2  
Start new topic
Replies (20 - 38)
Advertisement
post Sat, 4 Aug 2012 - 10:50
Post #


Advertise here!









Go to the top of the page
 
Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 13:33
Post #21


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



So I just recieved this email after i applied for the TMO, I appliead via FOI (before I was advised this may not be needed). Anyway, the 4th September is outside the usual 20 day reply for FOI, or does this response actually count as that 20 day reply?

Thanks.


Thank you for your e-mail received on 06 August 2012 requesting information regarding traffic management orders for the area covering Ripple Road.

I have sent your request to Jacquie Harris (Customer Services, Environmental & Enforcement Services) in the Customer Services who will arrange for the information to be provided to you no later than 04 September 2012.

Whilst it is the Council's policy to provide information wherever possible, I need to advise you that there are a number of exemptions under the Freedom of Information Act 2000. These may prevent me from releasing all or some of the information you have asked for. You will, however be informed if this is the case and why.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hippocrates
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 13:41
Post #22


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 9,876
Joined: 20 Mar 2012
Member No.: 53,821



Dear, dear, dear. What nonsense. Anyone can turn up at the council today, without notice, to view the TMO.


--------------------
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

Donald Rumsfeld

There are known knowns which, had we known, we would never have wished to know. It is known that this also applies to the known unknowns. However, when one attends PATAS, Mr Rumsfeld's idea that there are also unknown unknowns fails to apply because, anyone who is in the know, knows that unknown unknowns are purely a deception otherwise known as an aleatory experience or also known as a lottery. I know that I know this to be a fact and, in this knowledge, I know that I am fully prepared to present my case but, paradoxically, in full knowledge that the unknown unknowns may well apply in view of some adjudicators' lack of knowing what they ought to know.

"Hippocrates"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 13:43
Post #23


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Thank you, I will be going there tomorrow.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 15:15
Post #24


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Ok I am going to the council tomorrow to ask to view the TMO for this road and the changes they have made. What do I need to say if they again tell me I need to apply via freedom of information act? Just concerned that I'm going to get conned again and want to be prepared for it. Is there a piece of legislation I need to quote or something?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gan
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 15:35
Post #25


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



Take a copy of the Local Government Act 1972 and tell them they've got ten minutes to produce either the document or a member of their legal department.

I think it's section 225 that applies
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
EDW
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 15:39
Post #26


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 5,071
Joined: 1 Apr 2012
From: Arguing with Chan
Member No.: 54,036



QUOTE (Gan @ Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 16:35) *
Take a copy of the Local Government Act 1972 and tell them they've got ten minutes to produce either the document or a member of their legal department.

I think it's section 225 that applies


They can charge for copying

Subject to any provisions to the contrary in any other enactment or instrument, a person interested in any document deposited as mentioned in section 225 above may, at all reasonable hours, inspect and make copies thereof or extracts therefrom on payment to the person having custody thereof of the sum of 10p for every such inspection, and of the further sum of 10p for every hour during which such inspection continues after the first hour.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 15:57
Post #27


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Is this what you are talking about? Makes no sense to me whatsoever!! It's all very technical to someone that doesn't speak legal jargon...

225 Deposit of documents with proper officer of authority, etc.

(1)In any case in which a document of any description is deposited with the proper officer of a local authority, or with the chairman of a parish or community council or with the chairman of a parish meeting, pursuant to the standing orders of either House of Parliament or to any enactment or instrument, the proper officer or chairman, as the case may be, shall receive and retain the document in the manner and for the purposes directed by the standing orders or enactment or instrument, and shall make such notes or endorsements on, and give such acknowledgments and receipts in respect of, the document as may be so directed.
(2)All documents required by any enactment or instrument to be deposited with the proper officer of a parish or community shall, in the case of a parish or community not having a separate parish or community council, be deposited in England with the chairman of the parish meeting or in Wales with the proper officer of the [F780principal council].
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gan
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 16:14
Post #28


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



That's it

S.225 basically says that they have to keep the document

S.228(5) says that you have a right to inspect it and make copies
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 16:44
Post #29


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,926
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



and
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1996/2489/schedule/2/made


there is no need to make an appointment or to give your name
you are "an interested person" - that is sufficient.

and do not ask them to see it
they are public servants, always merely instruct and inform e.g.
"I am here to inspect the Traffic Order for .....!


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 16:47
Post #30


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



That's great, thanks guys, I WILL be assertive!!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 16:58
Post #31


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,926
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



assertive, not loud or argumentative (they would use that against you to deny you access)
and you can guarantee you will be on CCTV

This post has been edited by bama: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 17:01


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 17:03
Post #32


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Of course, I'm just usually such a mouse and end up asking nicely and getting told no.... But with the right information behind me, thanks to everyone here, I will be able to politely challenge them when they say no.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 17:25
Post #33


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,926
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



challenge ?
inform them of their mistake smile.gif
and give them the opportunity to correct it.
I am sure they "wish to fulfill their public duty"


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marie_78
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 19:12
Post #34


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 16
Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Member No.: 56,399



Just another thought, I'm planning to take some pictures of signs etc tomorrow or the general area. Unfortunately I have an old camera which won't add the time and date stamp to an image unless you print it (I have no such printer). Will this pose a problem if I need to use them as evidence for any reason?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gan
post Mon, 6 Aug 2012 - 19:23
Post #35


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 22,678
Joined: 23 Mar 2009
Member No.: 27,239



You're defending a bus lane contravention, not prosecuting a murder case

Keep the memory card, preferably a new one, so it can produced if necessary. Include the day's newspaper in one of the shots and email the pictures to somebody trustworthy. That's more than enough to show that the pictures were taken when you said.

Look at it this way. They're not going to claim that several weeks ago you took pictures of non-existent signs just on the off-chance that you would get a ticket.

You're also, unlike the council, facing severe penalties if you tell untruths so you have an extra incentive not to tell porkies.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kevin73
post Tue, 7 Aug 2012 - 17:21
Post #36


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Member No.: 56,321



Hi Marie

Hows things going on today? did you do to council? and wt abt the photos?
Thanks
kev
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kevin73
post Tue, 14 Aug 2012 - 10:41
Post #37


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Member No.: 56,321



Hi marie

did u post the letter?
kev
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
kevin73
post Sat, 17 Nov 2012 - 11:00
Post #38


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 31 Jul 2012
Member No.: 56,321



Hello Marie
I received letter form council that they have decided to cancle my 2 PCNs
THANKS
KEV blob10.gif blob9.gif blob8.gif blob7.gif blob6.gif blob5.gif blob3.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bama
post Sat, 17 Nov 2012 - 16:11
Post #39


Member


Group: Members
Posts: 28,926
Joined: 29 Nov 2005
Member No.: 4,323



well done.

how dd you get on with seeing the order


--------------------
Which facts in any situation or problem are “essential” and what makes them “essential”? If the “essential” facts are said to depend on the principles involved, then the whole business, all too obviously, goes right around in a circle. In the light of one principle or set of principles, one bunch of facts will be the “essential” ones; in the light of another principle or set of principles, a different bunch of facts will be “essential.” In order to settle on the right facts you first have to pick your principles, although the whole point of finding the facts was to indicate which principles apply.

Note that I am not legally qualified and any and all statements made are "Reserved". Liability for application lies with the reader.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  < 1 2
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Advertisement

Advertise here!

RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: Monday, 20th January 2020 - 06:26
Pepipoo uses cookies. You can find details of the cookies we use here along with links to information on how to manage them.
Please click the button to accept our cookies and hide this message. We’ll also assume that you’re happy to accept them if you continue to use the site.