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Appeal against PCN and towing changes in Newham council, Please help against PCn and towing charges newham council
ramy10
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:16
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Hi All

One of my friend directed me to this website and suggested that you guys are amazing in helping people like me.
I am in some trouble in preparing a case against Newham council regarding my PCN and car being towed away which costed me £240.


the incident occured on today 30th november. I drove to EASTHAM as I was having as i was locuming as pharmacist in boots, as parking was an issue my friend gave me visitors parking permit for 10 hour one. so i reached at 8.50 at campbell road which comes under the WF zone for which i had the visitors parking permit. so i duly filled it and placed it correctly to display the permit and left to work.

At lunch time around 1 p.m i came to check on my car which were not to be found. so i started to look around to find that campbell road had 2 different post. left hand parking said 'parking holders WF or 30 mins no return within 1 hour' and the right hand side {where i had parked my car} post had only 30 mins no return within 1 hour. so i had a feeling that my vehicle must have been towed so i called my friend and went to the towed depo paid the fine of £40 PCN and £200 for towing or releasing fees. i was handed vehicle release receipt and PCN along with representation form. my charge was parked for longer than permitted.

The staff member who was helping me to get my car from the car yard looked at my visitors permit and said to me you should appeal as have marked everything correct and that you just parked at the wrong place for which a PCN should be good enough and they might pay me for towing

so kindly help as you guys are good at this.
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post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:16
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John U.K.
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:27
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In time you will be making reps against two things
1) The PCN itself. Were this to succeed, all monies refunded.
2) the Removal. Were this to succeed, the tow fee refuded, even if PCN upheld.

As usual, for best advice please post up here both sides of the PCN, any Council photos,and all sides of everything received at the pound.
.
Also post up a GSV (Google Street View) link to the location.
Try this:
Do not attach docs/photos, but use this method:
Some are having problems with Tinypic at he moment.. try Flickr, where the BBcodes are concealed behind the curly arrow for sharing - clicking on the arrow reveals a list of BBCodes..

Photo or scan. see http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=36858&st=0
for how to do it. I use Tinypic for stage 2 with no problems. Thera are other sites, such as Flickr, which enable you to paste the BBCodes into your post here.
STAGE 1 takes care of resizing. If you use Tinypic for Stage 2, on the left each image in Tinypic is a list of links. Highlight and copy the entire link 'for forums' from the list for each image - beginning with IMG and ending /IMG (include all the square brackets [ ] ), and paste each link into your post. Each copied and pasted link will embed a thumbnail link in your post.

Using the attachment method is not advised as it means quickly running out of attachment space.

Redact/obscure name, address, PCN number and reg.mark.
LEAVE IN all dates/times; precise location, Contravention code and description.
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ramy10
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 22:50
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hi i went to the council website to get the images and it says You cannot appeal after you have paid your PCN, also images are not available once you pay your PCN. is that correct, if not what should i do
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John U.K.
post Thu, 30 Nov 2017 - 23:13
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QUOTE
also images are not available once you pay your PCN. is that correct, if not what should i do


It's a defect of every Council computer system, which is the apparent inability of it to distinguish between most PCNs (where paying closes the case) and Tow cases, where payment does not prevent making reps.

You will have to ask for them (do not not discuss the case, just ask for them to be sent/e-mailed to you).

But you should have a sheaf of papers from the pound, including the PCN and tow authorisation.
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ramy10
post Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 16:27
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hi

i am new to all this flickr and other stuff, so i have tried to attach the old ways. i am also looking to call the newham council for images on monday
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DancingDad
post Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 16:42
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Anymore paperwork from when you collected the vehicle ?

I suspect this is where you parked.
Read signs to left. Parked on right ?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.534407,0....3312!8i6656

This post has been edited by DancingDad: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 16:48
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ramy10
post Sun, 3 Dec 2017 - 12:30
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Sat, 2 Dec 2017 - 16:42) *
Anymore paperwork from when you collected the vehicle ?

I suspect this is where you parked.
Read signs to left. Parked on right ?
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.534407,0....3312!8i6656



yes that is correct read the signs on left and unfortunatley parked on right.

no more more paper work other than the usual blank representation forms for appealing
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ramy10
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:04
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guys i have asked newham council to provide me with images which after initial denial has been agreed to send by post. Can some one please look into this case and help as the appealing dates and closing in.
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stamfordman
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:26
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In this case Newham has towed for a lower level PCN, which is their lowest priority for towing. I would have thought this is disproportionate.


Priority One: i) Parked in contravention in a position/location which is prohibited and is causing danger, & serious health and safety implications for other road users or pedestrians. ii) Illegally parked in a formal disabled bay (30 minutes waiting time or 15 minutes if persistent evader *)

Priority Two: i) Persistent evader (parked in prohibited place) ii) Parked in an operational Bus Lane or at a Bus Stop iii) Vehicle with foreign registration plate (parked in prohibited place) iv) Parked obstructing a dropped footway (on a resident’s request) v) Parked on a footway (parked in a prohibited place) vi) Parked on school Keep Clear Markings* vii) Parked in a Doctors Bay

Priority Three: i) Parked committing a serious parking contravention (please refer to Appendix B above)

Priority Four: i) All other contraventions

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Documents/Transpo...-procedures.pdf
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ramy10
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 12:35
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QUOTE (stamfordman @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:26) *
In this case Newham has towed for a lower level PCN, which is their lowest priority for towing. I would have thought this is disproportionate.


Priority One: i) Parked in contravention in a position/location which is prohibited and is causing danger, & serious health and safety implications for other road users or pedestrians. ii) Illegally parked in a formal disabled bay (30 minutes waiting time or 15 minutes if persistent evader *)

Priority Two: i) Persistent evader (parked in prohibited place) ii) Parked in an operational Bus Lane or at a Bus Stop iii) Vehicle with foreign registration plate (parked in prohibited place) iv) Parked obstructing a dropped footway (on a resident’s request) v) Parked on a footway (parked in a prohibited place) vi) Parked on school Keep Clear Markings* vii) Parked in a Doctors Bay

Priority Three: i) Parked committing a serious parking contravention (please refer to Appendix B above)

Priority Four: i) All other contraventions

https://www.newham.gov.uk/Documents/Transpo...-procedures.pdf



thanks for the response.
you are right it is surely disproportionate. I did have a visitors permit is a testimony in itself that i was confused on the left and right side of the sign board. i have never evaded any traffic rules let alone PCN's should work in my favour

Is there any grounds to appeal the PCN
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ramy10
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 13:51
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have added 2 more images
1. First page of representaion
2. Back of PCN
these i had missed earlier
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
 
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John U.K.
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:27
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As I said in post #2
QUOTE
In time you will be making reps against two things
1) The PCN itself. Were this to succeed, all monies refunded.
2) the Removal. Were this to succeed, the tow fee refunded, even if PCN upheld.


The experts here will spot any errors in the small print of the paperwork.

Meanwhile,
In your own words, can you give any reasons why you think the PCN should be cancelled?
and
For what reasons do you think that the removal should not have been carried out?
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ramy10
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 19:15
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 15:27) *
As I said in post #2
QUOTE
In time you will be making reps against two things
1) The PCN itself. Were this to succeed, all monies refunded.
2) the Removal. Were this to succeed, the tow fee refunded, even if PCN upheld.


The experts here will spot any errors in the small print of the paperwork.

Meanwhile,
In your own words, can you give any reasons why you think the PCN should be cancelled?
and
For what reasons do you think that the removal should not have been carried out?


iam still trying to find a valid reason to make representation for both

Removal: on the grounds of levy being disproportionate if PCN upheld
PCN: iam not sure but i think the sign on both the sides were confusing. But while iam typing this i just read 4th point on the visitors parking permit which says the holder may park in a permit holder only or shared use bay. Not valid for use in pay and display bays. please check the signs. (attaching the image).
"does it mean apart from pay and display bays i can park everywhere else"
kindly look into this.
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John U.K.
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 19:40
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I think you are beginning to have some case aganst the PCN.
Point 4 of the T&C is not necessarily confusing.
You will be entitled to say
The Contravention did not occur.
Before completing the vistors' permit (copy attached) I read the T&C on the back. There it said
4. The holder may park in a permit holder only or shared use bay. Not valid for use in pay and display bays. Please check the signs.
The sign indicated that where I parked was not a pay and display.

------------------------
Clause 4 does not say "The holder may only park in a permit holder only or shared use bay."
It can be argued (later - at this stage it is for them to show why your interpretation is not correct) that it merely highlights a type of bay where it may be unclear whether you can park with a visitors permit, and says that you may, and goes on to say spoecifically where you may not.

More on the reps against the tow later.

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Neil B
post Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 21:29
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QUOTE (ramy10 @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 11:04) *
as the appealing dates and closing in.

You have until 27th. Calm down a bit.


--------------------
QUOTE (DancingDad @ Fri, 11 May 2018 - 12:30) *
Neil is good at working backwards.

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ramy10
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 21:32
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Wed, 6 Dec 2017 - 19:40) *
I think you are beginning to have some case aganst the PCN.
Point 4 of the T&C is not necessarily confusing.
You will be entitled to say
The Contravention did not occur.
Before completing the vistors' permit (copy attached) I read the T&C on the back. There it said
4. The holder may park in a permit holder only or shared use bay. Not valid for use in pay and display bays. Please check the signs.
The sign indicated that where I parked was not a pay and display.

------------------------
Clause 4 does not say "The holder may only park in a permit holder only or shared use bay."
It can be argued (later - at this stage it is for them to show why your interpretation is not correct) that it merely highlights a type of bay where it may be unclear whether you can park with a visitors permit, and says that you may, and goes on to say spoecifically where you may not.

More on the reps against the tow later.


hi all,

i have now received around 25 images from newham council, i am just posting 3. Guys the dates for PCN representation is 14 days which means i need to appeal it before 13th of this month. so kindly help. reps against the tow has another 14 days to go.
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John U.K.
post Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 22:15
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QUOTE
Guys the dates for PCN representation is 14 days which means i need to appeal it before 13th of this month. so kindly help. reps against the tow has another 14 days to go.
to make reps.

As I understand it, you have 28days from the day the PCN and receipt for the to were placed in your hand.
(Others will quickly jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!)
Where did you get the 14 days from?

You will, as I indicated earlier, be making reps against both items in the same set of reps.

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ramy10
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 12:05
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QUOTE (John U.K. @ Sun, 10 Dec 2017 - 22:15) *
QUOTE
Guys the dates for PCN representation is 14 days which means i need to appeal it before 13th of this month. so kindly help. reps against the tow has another 14 days to go.
to make reps.

As I understand it, you have 28days from the day the PCN and receipt for the to were placed in your hand.
(Others will quickly jump in and correct me if I'm wrong!)
Where did you get the 14 days from?

You will, as I indicated earlier, be making reps against both items in the same set of reps.


hi john,
thanks for your prompt reply. the back of the PCN (attached previously) 4 para says " if representation against the penalty charge are received not later than last day of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of service of this notice and then london borough of newham rejects them . the reduced charge will be accepted in full and the final settlement if it received before the end of the perios of 14 days begining with the date on which the rejection letter is served."

so i thought it has to be 14 days or it would not be considered.
many thanks
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John U.K.
post Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 12:46
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Don'T worry, you are entitled to feel confused smile.gif

Had you discovered the PCN and the car had not been removed, you proceed as per back of PCN -challenge or pay discount. Psying closes case.

But with a removal, you have to pay the PCN and charges before getting car back, so this is one of (if not the only) instances where you can pay and go on to make reps.

This post has been edited by John U.K.: Mon, 11 Dec 2017 - 12:47
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John U.K.
post Sun, 17 Dec 2017 - 22:15
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Ramy,
time to turn your attention to this, with Christmas looming.
Can you share your own thoughts as to why
1) you think the PCB is wrong
and
2) You believe the car should not have been towed.
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