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Vehicle Control Services, County Court Claim Form issued 18 April
flabbergasted
post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 21:52
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Hi All,

We received an ANPR Parking Charge Notice in the post back in July last year. It was showing the time of car entering and leaving carpark, 20 minutes without displaying a ticket. At the time we couldn't even work out what carpark it was, as in their correspondence it reads: Albert Street Birmingham B5 5JH. The postcode is showing the address to be Park Street, not Albert Street. So we ignored their letters. Unfortunately, only kept the Letter Before Claim and all the subsequent ones: County Court Claim form (which was aknowledged in the 14 days) and Detailed Particulars. In Detailed Particulars there are no pictures nor real details of the alleged contravention, except for:
"The Defendant s been issued with a CN for failure to adhere to the advertised T&C s at a development(s) known as Albert Street B5 5JH on June 3 2017. The offer advertised by way of the T&Cs was accepted by conduct." etc signed by Jake Burgess

So, it's now down to writing a defence and prepare for the courts. As June 3rd was Saturday, the driver was only there looking to park and left without parking.
Any suggestions on what to focus on in the defence, much appreciated.
To add, County Court Claim Form was issued 18th April 2018.

Thank you all

This post has been edited by flabbergasted: Wed, 9 May 2018 - 22:52
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post Wed, 9 May 2018 - 21:52
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 08:21
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You dont say you dont remember, if you do. you do not lie.
You can repsond with hwy youre being asked to name them - you have proof you were elsewhere, that you were not on the insurance at the time (Ideally, blank out surnames and take along as proof that D with first name X is NOT listed there) so what purpose does naming the driver serve, other than to do the claimants job for them?
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DancingDad
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 08:27
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IMO it is unlikely for the judge to ask who the driver was, it has no relevance to the case and is not something that the relevant laws require.
Likely to ask about whether daughter was driver, that has relevance.
And she can answer truthfully and simply "I was not the driver"
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 08:31
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and its even betetr if it is "I was jnot the driver I was at..., did not have insurance ot cover myself to drive the car anyway, and in fact there are X people who ARE covered, so the balance of probbailities is that I was not the driver.

The more you have, the better

When i the deadline? You have assumed a date, but your hearing letter TELLS YOU EXACTLY and with no ambiguity when your deadline is.
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 08:50
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 09:31) *
and its even betetr if it is "I was jnot the driver I was at..., did not have insurance ot cover myself to drive the car anyway, and in fact there are X people who ARE covered, so the balance of probbailities is that I was not the driver.

The more you have, the better

When i the deadline? You have assumed a date, but your hearing letter TELLS YOU EXACTLY and with no ambiguity when your deadline is.


"No later than 14 days before the hearing".
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 09:29
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OK, thats the *served* and *filed* date
S oyou
- emai the full bundle to the claimant. Split into several emails if needed
- hand the printed, put into folder, dividers and indexed bundle to the coutr, and ask for a reciept. If you cannot get one, lodge a certificate of filing. THIS IS IMPORTANT - it shows the court you did comply with their order.
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 10:29
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 10:29) *
OK, thats the *served* and *filed* date
S oyou
- emai the full bundle to the claimant. Split into several emails if needed
- hand the printed, put into folder, dividers and indexed bundle to the coutr, and ask for a reciept. If you cannot get one, lodge a certificate of filing. THIS IS IMPORTANT - it shows the court you did comply with their order.


The second part is a bit difficult to follow? I was planning on emailing the WS to the courts? Then bring original WS to the Hearing. All other correspondence/documents to date have been emailed.
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nosferatu1001
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 10:41
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And I'm telling you your plan is flawed, and your research on here will have told you that

Courts wsill not print a big bundle
If they do dont expect it to be put into a nice order
So, when you get to court and the judge has the WS bundle YOU FILED in front of them - not the one you turned up with - that theyve tried to go through, do you want them to have gone through a:
- nicely printed, filed and organised bundle, with clear index, dividers between sections, and tabs to easily swap between places.
Or
- whatever the courts been bothered to do.

So, do as we all say. You hand deliver.
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DancingDad
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 11:25
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I was in similar situation having left it till the last minute on my similar case.
I posted with certificate of posting, allowing for 2 working days delivery.
Guaranteed next day delivery another option if (as I think) WS should be filed tomorrow.
Costs about 7 quid but better then missing deadline.
Or email a copy, original in post ?
Or get someone to hand deliver as said.

My WS was only 3 pages so wasn't a need for dividers etc, just made sure I numbered all the paragraphs and pages for reference.
IMO make it simple for judge to follow.
Mine seemed a lot happier with my "bundle" then the 50 page plus that BW legal filed, most of it junk.
Which incidentally was posted 2 days after deadline and including a weekend ended up about 7 days late to me.
Judge didn't seem bovvered by that but that is not to say yours will not be if you are late.


This post has been edited by DancingDad: Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 11:28
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 13:07
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My WS is a simple one, a couple pages long, with a couple of photos of the signs attached with it. Will email today and possibly I will have someone hand deliver to the courts tomorrow (I am abroad atm).
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DancingDad
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 13:57
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QUOTE (flabbergasted @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 14:07) *
My WS is a simple one, a couple pages long, with a couple of photos of the signs attached with it. Will email today and possibly I will have someone hand deliver to the courts tomorrow (I am abroad atm).


Why a couple of pictures of signs?
In that car park there is only one sign (at entrance) that a driver can be expected to see and digest.
All the others are only readable once driver has parked and approached machines.
The entrance sign has no T&Cs, No mention of VCS and Excel plastered over it.
My opposition solicitor tried to say different, judge acknowledged the different stances on this but didn't need to rule on it, so didn't.
If he had have done so, VCS evidence pack shows sign positions and agreed with me re sign on entrance.
IMO stick with "this is the only sign the driver would be expected to have seen and digested, all others are only readable on foot."
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 15:35
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QUOTE (DancingDad @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 14:57) *
QUOTE (flabbergasted @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 14:07) *
My WS is a simple one, a couple pages long, with a couple of photos of the signs attached with it. Will email today and possibly I will have someone hand deliver to the courts tomorrow (I am abroad atm).


Why a couple of pictures of signs?
In that car park there is only one sign (at entrance) that a driver can be expected to see and digest.
All the others are only readable once driver has parked and approached machines.
The entrance sign has no T&Cs, No mention of VCS and Excel plastered over it.
My opposition solicitor tried to say different, judge acknowledged the different stances on this but didn't need to rule on it, so didn't.
If he had have done so, VCS evidence pack shows sign positions and agreed with me re sign on entrance.
IMO stick with "this is the only sign the driver would be expected to have seen and digested, all others are only readable on foot."


Yes agreed on all smile.gif
2nd pic is this one, showing Excel not VCS we pointed out in WS.

Attached thumbnail(s)
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cabbyman
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 19:45
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That's the exit sign. What's on the entrance sign?


--------------------
Cabbyman 11 PPCs 0
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 20:20
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QUOTE (cabbyman @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 20:45) *
That's the exit sign. What's on the entrance sign?


http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=14ifwcn&s=9#.W42XLaXRayU
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ostell
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 20:31
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So the drivers alleged contract was with Excel and VCS are taking the case to court. Whoops.
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flabbergasted
post Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 20:57
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QUOTE (ostell @ Mon, 3 Sep 2018 - 21:31) *
So the drivers alleged contract was with Excel and VCS are taking the case to court. Whoops.


Indeed.
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 08:55
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I'm really hoping that is listed as well! You REALLY need to draw the judges attention that the only visible sign says Excel, who are company number XYZ, and Not VCS, who are company ABC...
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DancingDad
post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 10:50
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 09:55) *
I'm really hoping that is listed as well! You REALLY need to draw the judges attention that the only visible sign says Excel, who are company number XYZ, and Not VCS, who are company ABC...



In my case (same car park) the legal rep (Elms Legal) for VCS made a great show of all the T&C boards, especially the ones that do say VCS.
And claimed that those were at the entrance.
Which I rejected pointing out that sign positions were in the bundle from VCS and did not show that, that the only sign at the entrance is the one Flabbergasted has linked to.

Judge didn't decide on signs in my case though mentioned the conflicting views in his summing up but with no view on them.
I was confident that had it become something the judge had to decide on, between my first hand knowledge, that the Elm's guy had none and VCS' own WS showing signs layout, the decision would have been in my favour.
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flabbergasted
post Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 12:09
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Tue, 4 Sep 2018 - 09:55) *
I'm really hoping that is listed as well! You REALLY need to draw the judges attention that the only visible sign says Excel, who are company number XYZ, and Not VCS, who are company ABC...


Oh yes, it's been drummed in thoroughly into the WS.
Will keep you all posted about the outcome.

Bring it on VCS! Or was it EXCEL?! lol
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flabbergasted
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:10
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Hi, friends

Court hearing out the way at last.
We (and that includes all of you)

W O N ! smile.gif

"Not the driver" sealed the deal😎
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DancingDad
post Tue, 18 Sep 2018 - 16:18
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Excellent.
Big well done to daughter for keeping it together in court.
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