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UKPC, Ticket with envelope in bag
Lynnzer
post Sat, 3 Oct 2015 - 18:50
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Just thought I'd pop up to the Metrocentre to see if UKPC are still ticketing.
Managed to pick one up as I watched them. They are doing this in twos now. One scouts for cars to ticket then the other comes along and does the biz.

Anyway, what I want to see is if they somehow magic up keepers details. The car has been ticketed before so there's a chance they still have the keepers details so might be tempted to use them.
Interesting to see that they now put a brown addressed envelope in the ticket bag. No stamp though.... They must be losing loads of money right now.

Haven't had one of their tickets for some time so maybe someone can see if there's anything different of note to what they had before.



This post has been edited by Lynnzer: Sat, 3 Oct 2015 - 18:51


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post Sat, 3 Oct 2015 - 18:50
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emanresu
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 05:55
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No mention of getting Keeper details from the DVLA? What did the signs say.

And have you complained to the site owners who hired them or is that for later wink.gif
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 08:13
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you say they are using a scout , then a second operative?

the time first seen and the time issued , was this by the "ticketer" or was the time first spotted noted by the "scout" ?

you do know that they have a problem with clock synchronisation , and the guy that put his name on the ticket might just be lying about saying he "first saw" the vehicle


PS: , I know the IPC (edit: BPA) have come to a conclusion , however they are still banned by the DVLA arn,t they?

if it takes them some time to get there status back more loses to Smith , however 8/10 would fill in the reply and use the brown envelope , thus incriminating themselves , just like ANPR Ltd chose to use a local rate (preston) phone number instead of an expensive 0870-08whatever one


please attach the envelope to a large breeze block and send it to them

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 09:02
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andy_foster
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 08:40
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QUOTE (emanresu @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 06:55) *
No mention of getting Keeper details from the DVLA? What did the signs say.

And have you complained to the site owners who hired them or is that for later wink.gif


QUOTE
Part 3. LATE/NON PAYMENT

This parking charge <...> Failure to respond may result in court proceedings <...> UK Parking Control Ltd will request the registered keeper's details from the DVLA/DVA should the Parking Charge remain unpaid after 28 days. <...>


Unless the DVLA allow UKPC to obtain the details retrospectively after they lift UKPC's ban (assuming that that the ban gets lifted), then this would appear to be an aggressive and misleading trading practice - although a certain QC successfully argued on behalf of erm, UKPC, that the test applies to an average consumer who is by definition honest and would therefore pay any debts lawfully owed - so if the fake parking fine is lawful, the fact that the ticket contains numerous lies which constitute both aggressive and misleading trading practices would not be likely to affect the transactional decision, so would not constitute an offence.

Lawyers often claim that they got into law to help people. Some lawyers seem to have gotten into law to help people to help themselves to other people's money.


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Umkomaas
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 09:08
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One thing's for sure, if they're having to enclose an addressed envelope with the ticket because they can't access keeper details, it will kill off ghost ticketing!
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 09:16
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maybe they go around in two's , because they cannot be trusted!


regarding the SAE , how many times do we get people on here falling for the likes of ANPR Ltd and writing/ringing

hell I saw Renshaw filling up the other day , just 2 star now , no super petrol anymore


Lynnzer , can you give us the "first noticed" time (by the scout) and the issue time by the agent

the issuing officer might be lying that he (as written on the form) "first spotted" the car

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 09:19
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ManxRed
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 12:14
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They ought to be going around in threes.

One who can read, one who can write, and one to look after the two intellectuals.


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DBC
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 13:01
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QUOTE (ManxRed @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 13:14) *
They ought to be going around in threes.

One who can read, one who can write, and one to look after the two intellectuals.


Just like the American servicemen who used to be stationed in those underground rocket silos. If somebody went off his rocker and threatened to push the "fire" button, the other two had permission to shoot him dead.

Perhaps that's what's happening to UKPC. If one "warden" sees the other tampering with the time-stamp, he can take him down.
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Jlc
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 13:13
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QUOTE (DBC @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 14:01) *
...he can take him down.

So they can issue the ticket instead towards their bonus?


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RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information, SAR=Subject Access Request

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 13:19
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 14:13) *
QUOTE (DBC @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 14:01) *
...he can take him down.

So they can issue the ticket instead towards their bonus?



but , but ,, there are no bonus's ,, that what the BPA say
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The Rookie
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 14:43
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Not quite, it's only in the latest CoP that incentives are prohibited, and they can only do that for new employment contracts.

Of course by working in pairs the new starter without fiscal incentives can search for the old lag with and they can then share the spoils!


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Lynnzer
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 15:19
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QUOTE (freddy1 @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 10:16) *
maybe they go around in two's , because they cannot be trusted!


regarding the SAE , how many times do we get people on here falling for the likes of ANPR Ltd and writing/ringing

hell I saw Renshaw filling up the other day , just 2 star now , no super petrol anymore


Lynnzer , can you give us the "first noticed" time (by the scout) and the issue time by the agent

the issuing officer might be lying that he (as written on the form) "first spotted" the car

Nothing really untoward in the duo's operation.
I watched them together doing a car on one side of the car park so moved mine into a disabled bay. Shortly afterwards one of them walked around the rest of the car park disabled bays, as that's the only place to collect a ticket. He made his way to my car and signalled for the other troll to come over. I was then photographed from all angles, including through the side windows onto the seats. Finally he took a picture of a nearby sign. He left the ticket on the windscreen. I had a problem not laughing when they went past me.

Now, I have collected a few tickets here from time to time and I have never had an issue in them doing ghost ticketing. There's no time limit imposed so the recent time changing on photo's isn't anything that would be a problem here either.
It's the first time I've seen then doing the round accompanied by someone else though. I'm guessing it may be a spare operative from some other site that has to be done by ANPR though that's unlikely.

I just did this to see if anything comes in the post later on that might just make the situation worse if a report is sent in to the DVLA and Information Commissioner.


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Tipthemout
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 15:45
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Have they actually been denied all access to RK data, or can they still obtain it using paper forms? Or can they use a front company to get it for them?
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 16:49
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there dvla access has been withdrawn (full stop) , however the way I read it , an external company can ask for and pass on this info , providing the company asking is a member of an ATA , the BPA has not suspended them , so YES they can use an external company , legally
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ManxRed
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:10
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I disagree freddy.

I suspect they will be in trouble if a third party gets the data for them, but don't ask me on what basis I hold that view.

Suspended should mean suspended from getting the data - by any means. That would be my guess.


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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:24
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umm interesting? , the way I have read it , is that access to the dvla database has been suspended for UKPC , ie THEY can no longer use electronic or paper access , however the likes of DR+/PCS or ranger services , all of which are a member of an ATA can get the info and pass it on , the only stipulation is that the info must be passed to a approved ATA member

I suspect this clause was actually put in by the BPA to cover there members , those that had run foul of the DVLA , or even not paid there bills ,

UKPC are still a member of an approved ATA , they were only reprimanded , not booted out like ANPR Ltd


PS: I hope you are correct , but suspect a bit of leg shaking and funny handshakes went on between UKPC and the BPA , and to members of the general public "the highest ever given points" (lie) run by the press would keep the populance happy

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:30
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nigelbb
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:27
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They cannot use a 3rd-party to purchase keeper details as that would subvent the whole idea of needing to be in an ATA to buy keeper details. If a 3rd-party company with DVLA access because they are in the BPA Ltd AOS were to purchase data on behalf of another company with no access they would be in big trouble with the DVLA. If this route were available then ANPR Ltd & other scum would still be able to buy keeper details through the back door & that is simply not allowed.

They cannot apply on a paper from V888 either. They are suspended from purchasing keeper details by any means.

Incidentally if their suspension isn't permanent they still cannot retrospectively purchase details for all the keepers whose cars they have ticketed while suspended.


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British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:34
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umm , in the case of ANPR Ltd , and indeed preserve , they must be a member of an approved ATA , hence trev trying to get past this by joining the credit services Assoc ,

the rules state that info can be obtained by the likes of PCS/DR+ for other people PROVIDING they are a member of an APPROVED*** ATA

trev was booted out by the BPA , UKPC are still a member of an approved ATA , but without access to the DVLA


PCS/DR+ do the back office for many companies , as such they are not a parking Co , I think a FOI about the number of times they have collected info , for members of the BPA and IPC might be frightening

the preserve case stopped the non ATA setup dead in its tracks



*** trev , cocked up and it was a pleasure forwarding on the emails from the DVLA explaining this , to several companies that he had been "economic" with the truth to , inc Preston Council who were not happy with him

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 18:47
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nigelbb
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 19:36
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QUOTE (freddy1 @ Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 19:34) *
the rules state that info can be obtained by the likes of PCS/DR+ for other people PROVIDING they are a member of an APPROVED*** ATA

trev was booted out by the BPA , UKPC are still a member of an approved ATA , but without access to the DVLA

Even if the PPC are still members of an approved ATA then a 3rd-party cannot purchase keeper details on their behalf when their direct access is suspended otherwise there would be no point to the suspension as it would have no effect on the company.


--------------------
British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice(Appendix C contains Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 ) & can be found here http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Code-of-Pr...ance-monitoring
DfT Guidance on Section 56 and Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/syste...ing-charges.pdf
Damning OFT advice on levels of parking charges that was ignored by the BPA Ltd Reference Request Number: IAT/FOIA/135010 – 12 October 2012
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freddy1
post Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 19:43
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ok , where in the BPA/IAS/DVLA or POFa 2012 rules does it say that,


the wording I can find , and even scanning thru emails from the DVLA regarding this matter , specifically omit to mention a company that is a member of an ATA but has been banned from getting info directly from the DVLA , and simply states that they can only pass this info on to a currant ATA member ,

silly trev ,,,

I agree this is stupid , and suspect the reason why UKPC were not booted out

This post has been edited by freddy1: Sun, 4 Oct 2015 - 19:44
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