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PPS ... invoice?
J4G3D
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 19:22
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Hi again wonderful people of the forum.

My good friend has received a invoice from a company called PPS for the sum of £60.

They claim that the car was not parked in a bay at a tesco express car park at 5.32pm on a Sunday.

The car actually wasn't parked in a bay, but it was parked in a position that did not block anyone.

Anyway, is this another invoice from a private company?

Should I tell my friend to ignore it or can he send the bellow letter which I sent to the parking eye a few months ago (with success)

I am appealing as the keeper and ONLY Schedule 4 of the POFA (or evidence of who was driving) can cause a keeper appellant to be deemed to be the liable party. The PCN makes no attempt to pass liability to the keeper after 28 days. A vehicle can be driven by any person (with the consent of the owner) as long as the driver is insured.

There is no dispute that the driver was entitled to drive the car and I can confirm that they were, but I am exercising my right not to name that person. As the keeper of the vehicle, it is my right to choose not to name the driver, yet still not be lawfully held liable if an operator is not using or complying with Schedule 4.

This exact finding was made in 6061796103 against ParkingEye in September 2016, where POPLA Assessor Carly Law found: ''I note the operator advises that it is not attempting to transfer the liability for the charge using the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and so in mind, the operator continues to hold the driver responsible. As such, I must first consider whether I am confident that I know who the driver is, based on the evidence received. After considering the evidence, I am unable to confirm that the appellant is in fact the driver. As such, I must allow the appeal on the basis that the operator has failed to demonstrate that the appellant is the driver and therefore liable for the charge. As I am allowing the appeal on this basis, I do not need to consider the other grounds of appeal raised by the appellant. Accordingly, I must allow this appeal.''
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post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 19:22
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Jlc
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 19:56
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What's the exact company name, there are several 'PPS'.

That appeal only applies if they have not complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act. (i.e. they can pursue the keeper, regardless of whether they were driving or not)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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J4G3D
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 19:58
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 20:56) *
What's the exact company name, there are several 'PPS'.

That appeal only applies if they have not complied with the Protection of Freedoms Act. (i.e. they can pursue the keeper, regardless of whether they were driving or not)



Sorry its:

Private parking solutions (London) ltd
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Jlc
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 20:11
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Ok, fairly litigious. Would be good to see redacted PCN and signs. At least some chance at POPLA.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 20:32
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You can't use that same letter for a windscreen PCN as it makes no sense.

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/BPA-Approved-Operators

BPA member so every chance at POPLA, as Jlc says.

As long as the PCN offers email or online appeal, the registered keeper of the car should wait to exactly day 26, then send the template appeal from the MSE NEWBIES thread:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=4816822

The reason for delaying till day 26 for an online appeal, and why NOT to add words blabbing about who the driver was, are all explained there.
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J4G3D
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 21:01
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The parking incident happened on the 14th October
No ticket on windscreen.

Ticket received in post on 19th
Issued date 17th

There is a option to appeal via email or in writing according to their website.

Which date do I get my friend to wait 26 days from?

Also, attached please check where my friend parked. In the picture he parked where the first purple car is in front. Its not a designated bay, but clearly its not blocking or causing any problems at all. Also a sign of the parking notice in the car park is attached.

Thank you

This post has been edited by J4G3D: Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 21:03
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SchoolRunMum
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 21:13
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So a pretend 'warden' has taken a photo. Whatever they say in appeal the DRIVER must not be admitted, so the registered keeper appeals.

Show us both sides of the postal Notice to Keeper (cover the VRN and the name/address of the recipient).

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J4G3D
post Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 22:22
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 22:13) *
So a pretend 'warden' has taken a photo. Whatever they say in appeal the DRIVER must not be admitted, so the registered keeper appeals.

Show us both sides of the postal Notice to Keeper (cover the VRN and the name/address of the recipient).

Thats correct, someone has physically taken a picture within the space of 15 minutes. And the picture is not the best quality either.

I will tell my friend to scan the letter he received. Will likely post it up here tomorrow.

Thanks
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J4G3D
post Mon, 22 Oct 2018 - 11:08
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The parking notice is attached.
Attached File(s)
Attached File  Tesco_Parking_Ticket.pdf ( 1.35MB ) Number of downloads: 30
 
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J4G3D
post Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 01:34
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What would be the best route to go down with this one?
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 10:59
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You were told precisely what to do in post 5.
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J4G3D
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 02:31
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QUOTE (nosferatu1001 @ Wed, 24 Oct 2018 - 11:59) *
You were told precisely what to do in post 5.

This person asks for a picture of the PCN both sides, so I assumed there may be another route to take.
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ostell
post Thu, 25 Oct 2018 - 07:30
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Just covering ALL possible routes.
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J4G3D
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 13:48
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Thanks to all, So i am sending this exact template word for word:

Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement. There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn.

Since your PCN is a vague template, I require all photos taken, a clear image of the signage and an explanation of the allegation (e.g. if you have identified a wrong VRN input at a machine, say so, and explain why your Data Protection Officer has not simply rectified it, rather than trying to punish a driver for a matter where there is nothing to deter).

I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP, appraising all parties of the debate where Parliament agreed: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists...should not have to put up with this''. Firms of your ilk were unanimously condemned as operating an 'outrageous scam' (Hansard 2.2.18). The BPA & IPC were heavily criticised; hardly surprising for an industry where so-called AOS members admit to letting victims 'futilely go through the motions' of appeal and that 'we make it up most of the time' (BBC Watchdog).

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.
Yours faithfully,


And do i send it 26th day from the parking issue or the date on the letter that they sent?

Also should i keep paragraph 2 since they've supplied a clear enough picture and information as to why my friend received the PCN?
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peterguk
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 13:51
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QUOTE (J4G3D @ Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 13:48) *
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.

Huh?


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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 14:01
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There are suggestions that, in future, MCOL claim forms can be served to an email address. This is trying to head that off, I suspect.

There is no point delaying sending, as you already havea NtK.
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SchoolRunMum
post Tue, 30 Oct 2018 - 21:37
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QUOTE
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service.


Yes I wrote the above into the MSE template appeal to stop any PPC planning to use the new email MCOL version, and to put them on notice that an address used at appeal stage is not necessarily able to be assumed to be the address for service several months or years later.
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Spudandros
post Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 17:36
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QUOTE (Jlc @ Fri, 19 Oct 2018 - 21:11) *
Ok, fairly litigious. Would be good to see redacted PCN and signs. At least some chance at POPLA.


Fairly litigious and fairly useless in court. Lost all 35 cases they tried to pursue for alleged infringements in Ashford - 26 straight losses at hearing and ordered by court to discontinue the rest. They were chucked off the site when it turned out the land holder - Greene King - were unaware they were operating on their land. A tenant had cooked up the arrangement with PPS against their underlease and hadn't told the land holder. So worth checking if they have authority to be there at all. Also the had a bogus contract that failed BPA code 7.3 - no plan showing the boundaries of the land they were operating on. Frequently ignored appeals to try and dodge POPLA. Lots to go on.
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J4G3D
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 02:16
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Sorry to ask again, but could anyone reply to post #14?
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ostell
post Mon, 5 Nov 2018 - 08:20
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so it arrives 26 days after parking.
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