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Bank park management ltd - private parking not paid
SE-786
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 11:18
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I have received a claim form from the county court business centre in Northampton that deal with online small claims.
Issue date: 04 Oct 2018

The claimant is Bank park management ltd using QDR solicitors ltd.

They are claiming for a total amount of: £235. Breakdown: Amount claimed: £160, Court Fee: £25, Legal representative's cost: £50 Total amount: £235.

The particulars of the claim are (in summary):
Parked at site in breach of contract, contravention being Anpr failure to pay for parking.
By entering into contract Defendant agreed that they would be liable for £100 parking charges plus additional contractual charged incurred by the claimant for collection of the debt pursuant to the terms and conditions.

I have only just filled in online the acknowledgement of service.

I am trying to compile a defence but would appreciate any help.

The key points I have currently put together are:
1. According to protection of freedoms act 2012 schedule 4 they should be charging an amount of genuine pre estimate of loss. They charge 40p per hour.
2. Sign is not clearly shown - Car park has no signage stating terms and conditions at entrance, there is 1 sign of this nature on the far end but can easily be obstructed by a parked vehicle.
3. Penalty clause as the charge is an attempt to prevent motorists from breaching the contract - a term or condition in a contract which demands an excessive financial charge be paid if one party breaches the contract.

Will these be enough to win?

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post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 11:18
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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 11:30
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GPEOL is mostly dead and the PoFA doesn't state that. (ParkingEye v Beavis)

The £100 charge is prevent breach of the terms (i.e. not paying for parking) - it is likely the judge will accept that as reasonable (and not a penalty).

If they are relying on PoFA to hold the keeper liable then there's an argument that the claim should not exceed £100. (Although they will argue it's an additional contractual term on the signs) It is worth challenging - 'The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper'.

Signage could be key then. They will obviously state it is sufficient, you will have to show it's not.

This post has been edited by Jlc: Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 11:30


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SE-786
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 13:05
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Thanks for the reply Jlc,

I will try take some pictures of the parking area later today and where the sign is along with what it shows on it.


Is there anywhere I can find what would be required to prove no contract existed due to the sign?
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Jlc
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 13:27
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QUOTE (SE-786 @ Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 14:05) *
Is there anywhere I can find what would be required to prove no contract existed due to the sign?

A good place to start would be the Code of Practice. Here.

Any deficiency should be highlighted - or simply if the signage was poor (e.g. on entrance or at parking location).


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SE-786
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 15:20
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would it be a good idea to ask bank park management ltd to send me what they have? As all paperwork that may have been received has been binned or lost?
wondering if I could get a copy of them to try and scrutinize it?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 9 Oct 2018 - 15:28
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DOnt ask them
SAR them
They HAVE to respond to a SAR within 30 days.
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SE-786
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 08:29
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I only have 28 days to submit my defence so doesn't seem fruitful requesting something they have 30 days to respond to.

I have attached the letters I have found. 1 from bank park management which is a reminder notice, the other is from zzps chasing the dept and the letter from qdr solicitors and lastly the claim form from court.

It seems they have updated their signs as they now have them practically everywhere so that will be hard to prove about inadequate signage.

Looking at the attached images does it seem like there's a case?
Attached thumbnail(s)
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image
Attached Image

 
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Jlc
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 08:44
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QUOTE (SE-786 @ Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:29) *
It seems they have updated their signs as they now have them practically everywhere so that will be hard to prove about inadequate signage.

Er, your witness statement. And put them to proof of the signage at the material date and of course their installation logs. (Which they either won't have or will show the signs going up AFTER the material date)


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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SE-786
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:02
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This is actually not for myself but for a friend.

He is unsure of if the signs were like this at the time to be honest but he doesn't remember seeing them.

Would it be worth putting them to proof of having authority from the landholder to enforce this? as he believes first letter he received was from euro parking services. So they may not have had the authority at the time?
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ostell
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 09:32
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Of course query authority
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nosferatu1001
post Wed, 10 Oct 2018 - 10:21
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Every single defence queries standing
All of them

You of crouse still SAR them. You do this, because 3 months down the line, when you have to submit evidence, you will have it
OR you could argue

Given we all her know EXACTLY the deadlines for defences, we are quite adept at not asking you to do something useless.
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SE-786
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 10:41
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Any idea who actually owns The Farley Centre?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 11:23
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When did your SAR go in?
ASk the council who pays the NDR.
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SE-786
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:04
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I emailed the SAR on 10th October 2018.


Sorry what's an NDR?
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nosferatu1001
post Tue, 16 Oct 2018 - 12:20
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Non domestic rates.
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SE-786
post Tue, 23 Oct 2018 - 11:12
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just an update:

Bank park management sent an email responding to the SAR request asking for the PCN so they can find out the details. I responded back with the PCN but also stating that the details provided earlier i.e. name and address was enough to ascertain who I am so this shouldn't in any way delay the information being sent to me.

I contacted Sandwell council and asked who pays the non domestic rates for the Farley centre, at first they didn't know or understand my request. After being transferred a few times they refused to give any information out. But eventually after a bit of persistence they advised it is Garnem Limited who are in Centre Court on 1301 Stratford road hall green. But they did say it seems as though Garnem is just an agent for the owner.

Should I ring/ send a letter to them to see if they will drop the case?
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SE-786
post Wed, 31 Oct 2018 - 23:39
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another thing I would like to add, from the documents they have sent from the SAR, the notice to keeper was sent on the 23/03/2018. The incident happened on the 11/03/2018. I believe we assume 2 days for delivery of the letter (notice to keeper) meaning it was received on 27/03/2018 due to 23/03/2018 being a Friday. This means the notice to keeper was received 16 days after the incident not 14 days after.

Does this mean they have not followed the correct procedure from POFA so are not able to chase for payment?
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ostell
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 09:20
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That failure to deliver within the relevant period of 14 days means that they cannot transfer liability to the keeper and they are therefore claiming from the wrong person POFA 9 (4), (5) & (6).

This should be one of the very first items in your defence. Write to the solicitors pointing out that they have the wrong defendant and you are making a drop hands offer for them to withdraw they claim. When you prevail then you will ask for your full costs as they knew they did not have a case.

This post has been edited by ostell: Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 09:21
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 1 Nov 2018 - 12:17
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Yep
POint this ot to them
STate they have no prospect of success, as the only mechanism they have for making the keeper liable, has not been complied with
As they are now fully aware of this absolute defence, failure to discontinue now will see you claiming your full costs at £19 per hour if they continue with an obviously vexatious case.
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SE-786
post Fri, 2 Nov 2018 - 10:13
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There isn't enough space to put the defence in the space provided on the money claim website. Should I just put bullet points of main issues and mention that I will be emailing the full details to the email address provided on their site?
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