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Another Northern Rail "Penalty Parking Notice"
NotEve
post Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 19:30
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Hi Everyone, someone i know of received as the title suggests, a "Penalty Parking Notice" from Northern Rail. This was for "not parked in a MARKED BAY (3)".

To remove any ambiguity, I have (hopefully) attached an obfuscated photograph of said ticket. From what I can tell, there is no third party operator involved. Just Northern Rail and the Bye-laws.

I know there have been several topics around this here and elsewhere, and I've read several of them but I am still unsure how to proceed. Here is the story.

Today the driver parked in their usual train station car park. Although they arrived at their usual time, it was unusually full. They had no choice but to park at the end of a row of bays. They know where they parked not to be an obstruction as they have parked in the row of spaces perpendicular to where they parked today (and indeed, drivers park here every day for as long as theyhave used the car park) and they know it does not obstruct any cars entering or exiting the park. They drive around the cars parked where they parked today on a daily basis without issue.

They have an annual season ticket holder which entitles them to park at no extra cost. Other car park users must use the ticket machine. They are not aware of anywhere else to park safely in the surrounding area outside the Station grounds. There was nothing they could have done and they had to get to work.

Is it worth appealing? Is there any way they can reasonably argue this ticket? Or is it just one of those things they'll have to pay? It's not like they do not admit that the parked outside a Marked bay, but they did not believe that this was something they couldn't do as other users park exactly where they did and in another 5 similar "spaces" at the end of each row of bays every day. They feel that given they didn't cause an obstruction and had no choice to park where they did and that their parking is already paid for in the £1,300 annual season ticket they purchase, that they can't find a way to justify paying them another £50 for the lack of facilities being available to them.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

This post has been edited by southpaw82: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 - 19:51
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post Tue, 24 Apr 2018 - 19:30
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Redivi
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 16:22
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The letter is, to put it kindly, legally questionable

Northern Rail appears to be saying that the payment of the penalty notice isn't an alternative to prosecution

It's a debt that it wants the magistrates to enforce before they move on to prosecuting a person that is rightly or wrongly assumed to be the driver

The response wants a bit of thinking about

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Redivi
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 16:54
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An interesting approach that a friend has suggested that might already be the subject of some threads

Pay the £80 (I would make clear it was under duress)

Wait until the six months to prosecute is up
Bring a claim in Small Claims Court for the return of the £80 that you were deceived into believing you were legally obliged to pay

See this thread

http://forums.pepipoo.com/lofiversion/index.php/t99955.html

This post has been edited by Redivi: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 16:58
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Jlc
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 17:53
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Indeed, a criminal prosecution is not nice.


--------------------
RK=Registered Keeper, OP=Original Poster (You!), CoFP=Conditional Offer of Fixed Penalty, NtK=Notice to Keeper, NtD=Notice to Driver
PoFA=Protection of Freedoms Act, SAC=Safety Awareness Course, NIP=Notice of Intended Prosecution, ADR=Alternative Dispute Resolution
PPC=Private Parking Company, LBCCC=Letter Before County Court Claim, PII=Personally Identifiable Information

Private Parking - remember, they just want your money and will say almost anything to get it.
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NotEve
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 18:29
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Thanks for all your responses and advice. I definitely don't want a criminal prosecution and don't think I've the heart or stomach for it.

I think I'm going to do a bit of back and forth before appealing. I may end up as suggested just paying and taking to small claims court. I like that idea though if it costs me, it could be a hollow victory. I'll have to research on that.

I can't imagine being able to draw out the back and forth for 6 months but I'll postpone as long as I can.
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Redivi
post Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 19:55
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The idea is to pay the £80 now while the offer is still on the table
If you go back and forth, Northern will add extra charges

Recovery isn't a certainty so you want to make sure you don't have too much cash at risk
The lower amount also increases the chances that Northern won't contest

Any claim made using the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014 has to be initiated within 90 days of making payment
You therefore want to make the payment as close to the 14 days deadline as possible, and send a polite letter requesting a refund about 85 days later

I would keep this low key rather than the full-blooded Letter Before Action
This has less risk of raising alarm bells and triggering a prosecution

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NotEve
post Wed, 27 Jun 2018 - 07:41
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Tue, 26 Jun 2018 - 20:55) *
The idea is to pay the £80 now while the offer is still on the table
If you go back and forth, Northern will add extra charges

Recovery isn't a certainty so you want to make sure you don't have too much cash at risk
The lower amount also increases the chances that Northern won't contest

Any claim made using the Consumer Protection (Amendment) Regulations 2014 has to be initiated within 90 days of making payment
You therefore want to make the payment as close to the 14 days deadline as possible, and send a polite letter requesting a refund about 85 days later

I would keep this low key rather than the full-blooded Letter Before Action
This has less risk of raising alarm bells and triggering a prosecution



Great, ok thank you.

Should I send a letter do you think? Electronic payments are my only means to pay.
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NotEve
post Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 07:52
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Sorry, another question. Surely they can't rescind the "offer" of payment simply because it was as challenged / appealed and was unsuccessful?
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The Rookie
post Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 08:05
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Right now you would just be paying, not sending anything else, that comes in 85 days.


--------------------
There is no such thing as a law abiding motorist, just those who have been scammed and those yet to be scammed!

S172's
Rookies 1-0 Kent

Council PCN's
Rookies 1-0 Warwick
Rookies 1-0 Birmingham

PPC PCN's
Rookies 8-0 PPC's
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Redivi
post Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 08:07
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Read my Post #61 again

The letter says that, if the penalty is not paid, they will take legal action to recover it in addition to any fines that the court may impose
In other words the penalty is a separate matter from the prosecution

The letter does not say that, if the penalty is paid, they won't prosecute

Unlike the fixed penalty system for exceeding speed limits, the Railway Byelaws do not say anywhere that the penalty is an alternative to prosecution
Nothing therefore prevents a prosecution if you pay the penalty and annoy them afterward
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NotEve
post Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 08:21
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QUOTE (Redivi @ Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 09:07) *
Read my Post #61 again

The letter says that, if the penalty is not paid, they will take legal action to recover it in addition to any fines that the court may impose
In other words the penalty is a separate matter from the prosecution

The letter does not say that, if the penalty is paid, they won't prosecute

Unlike the fixed penalty system for exceeding speed limits, the Railway Byelaws do not say anywhere that the penalty is an alternative to prosecution
Nothing therefore prevents a prosecution if you pay the penalty and annoy them afterward


Sorry I'm not being clear. I understand what you're saying above but what I'm trying to ask is, the first letter states that I must pay the penalty or appeal. If I appeal then fail, is it normal that they would just skip straight to prosecution? Rather than trying to re-impose the penalty? Would appealing constitute annoying them?

QUOTE (The Rookie @ Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 09:05) *
Right now you would just be paying, not sending anything else, that comes in 85 days.
Thanks.

This post has been edited by NotEve: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 - 08:22
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