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Please help - Vehicle Control Services, Advice needed
Tom Cahill
post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 17:19
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Hello all

Please can anyone what to do in this situation and hear me out.

My girlfriend and I currently live together in a flat with secure resident parking looked after by VCS. Lived here for over a year and they sent out new permit disc for 2018 mid December time. I put it in the glove box for safe keeping and forgot to swap it over - obviously an oversight on my part and on 23rd February this year I find a PCN on windscreen for not displaying valid permit. A letter was also sent to girlfriend's home address in Blackpool (as this registered address of vehicle). I decided to appeal and my GF's sister sends me the reference number and I appeal.

They reduce the fine from £100 to £20 which I paid on time.

Then this week GF receives another letter saying the fine hasn't been paid. I rang them up confused and it seems that fine that I appealed and paid was actually for a PCN given on 20th of February (of which we were unaware as the windscreen notice must have been removed by someone else).

As soon as we saw the windscreen notice on 23rd February we immediately put the correct permit on display.

In summary, they gave one PCN on 20th Feb of which we were unaware then gave another one on the 23rd February. Letter from PCN20th arrives in post a week later and reference used to appeal as we assumed it was for PCN23rd of which we were aware. They are asking me for a separate £100 now meaning I will have to pay £120 in total for making one mistake and parking outside my own flat in a very under-subscribed car park. One letter was received notifying us of PCN20 on the 1st March but no other letter arrived making us aware of PCN23rd - basically we should have had 2 separate PCN letters within the same week - we only received one.

Any help would be welcome!
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post Mon, 9 Apr 2018 - 17:19
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Redivi
post Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 11:17
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I can understand that viewpoint

I'd be surprised if they accepted £20 but I wouldn't go as high as £60, the original parking notice minus discount, without seting conditions
It marks you down as somebody who will always pay their parking notices

As this is a residential car park, the chances are very high that you and your girlfriend have an unconditional right to park and no obligation to display a permit at all

You could therefore make a Without Prejudice or admission of liability, save to costs offer to VCS to pay £60 on the condition that they agree to white-list the car and there is no requirement to display a permit

This post has been edited by Redivi: Wed, 25 Jul 2018 - 11:18
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Tom Cahill
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 15:23
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UPDATE:
Now received the dreaded Letter Before Claim from VCS after ignoring several "Debt collector" letters.


Please can people advise about what is best to do now?

I would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers.
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bearclaw
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 15:39
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You need confirmation in writing from your landlord that the tenancy has always included the right to use that parking space. Thats the important thing now.

Once you have that, a stiffly worded letter to VCS indicating it's your space, and they have no right to trespass on it, and should they be foolish enough to actually issue a claim you will counter claim for damages arising from the distress and interruption to your quiet enjoyment.
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Tom Cahill
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 15:58
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QUOTE (bearclaw @ Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 15:39) *
You need confirmation in writing from your landlord that the tenancy has always included the right to use that parking space. Thats the important thing now.

Once you have that, a stiffly worded letter to VCS indicating it's your space, and they have no right to trespass on it, and should they be foolish enough to actually issue a claim you will counter claim for damages arising from the distress and interruption to your quiet enjoyment.


Thanks for your reply. Do you think that by doing this it should put the matter to bed? Also, what specific info should the letter include in order to prove it is a legitimate letter?

Cheers
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Tom Cahill
post Sat, 8 Dec 2018 - 21:37
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So I have had some advice to send a SAR to VCS and also to issue a firm rebuttal to the LBC.

Can anyone assist me with writing these? Or recommend a good template to use?

Cheers for info.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 14:17
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On MSE you posted this:

QUOTE
I have a copy for the lease and the lease is specifically for the parking space that my Landlord bought several years ago.

The lease states that:

'The company covenants with the purchaser:
Quiet Enjoyment:
(1) To allow the purchaser (subject to compliance with the Terms of this Lease) to hold and enjoy The Property throughout the Term without any interruption by the Company or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust for it"

The Property referred to is the car parking space itself.

How does that look?
Looks great. Send a copy with a request for a SAR and tell VCS to do one.

I'd also tell the *new* poster 'Pirate Parker' on MSE to do one too, if I were you. Look how he is steering residential cases towards relying on him and doing counter claims (again, like another poster). You won't be aware but we've seen this before and people who post like that are not new posters (ignore him on MSE, please).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5935831

This post has been edited by SchoolRunMum: Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 14:17
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 14:46
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When it comes to a defence, you can use as a base, this one from MSE, which needs very little adjustment to make the facts suitable for each case:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...04#post75146304

That was written by bargepole who is legally qualified. The only point I'd say is missing from that one is the point that the Claimant does not own the land and has not shown that they have the standing or landowner authority, enabling them to form contracts with residents and override their rights and easements as if they did not exist.

No-one needs steering by one poster. There is no need for Eljayjay's long rambling template defences and pushing people into counter-claims, which has made some regulars on both forums question his agenda. We advise here as a team of volunteers like the regulars do on MSE too.
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Tom Cahill
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 15:16
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 14:17) *
On MSE you posted this:

QUOTE
I have a copy for the lease and the lease is specifically for the parking space that my Landlord bought several years ago.

The lease states that:

'The company covenants with the purchaser:
Quiet Enjoyment:
(1) To allow the purchaser (subject to compliance with the Terms of this Lease) to hold and enjoy The Property throughout the Term without any interruption by the Company or any person lawfully claiming under or in trust for it"

The Property referred to is the car parking space itself.

How does that look?
Looks great. Send a copy with a request for a SAR and tell VCS to do one.

I'd also tell the *new* poster 'Pirate Parker' on MSE to do one too, if I were you. Look how he is steering residential cases towards relying on him and doing counter claims (again, like another poster). You won't be aware but we've seen this before and people who post like that are not new posters (ignore him on MSE, please).

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showth...d.php?t=5935831



Thanks for your reply!

The lease copy I have is like 20+ pages, so should I send a copy of all of it or just certain parts? I contacted my landlord yesterday and he is putting it in writing that I, as the tenant, have permission to use the parking space. Also, is there no danger in showing my hand here? (i.e. showing them my argument and evidence?)

Another thing I am wondering is should the SAR and the defence with lease copy go in the same letter to the same address or do they need to go to different departments of VCS?

The advice is much appreciated.
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SchoolRunMum
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 15:26
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I'd wait for your landlord's letter/email and then attach that and a few relevant pages from the lease, to tell the parking firm not only to ''do one'' but never to darken your parking bay ever again or to ask the DVLA for any data of any vehicle parked in that bay, or they will be sued for misuse of data and harassment.

You must show your hand, it's part of the pre-action protocol for 'debt claims' (do Google & read it, so you know).

A SAR should go only to the Data Protection Officer, and this email is normally available on their privacy page.
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Tom Cahill
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 15:31
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QUOTE (SchoolRunMum @ Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 15:26) *
I'd wait for your landlord's letter/email and then attach that and a few relevant pages from the lease, to tell the parking firm not only to ''do one'' but never to darken your parking bay ever again or to ask the DVLA for any data of any vehicle parked in that bay, or they will be sued for misuse of data and harassment.

You must show your hand, it's part of the pre-action protocol for 'debt claims' (do Google & read it, so you know).

A SAR should go only to the Data Protection Officer, and this email is normally available on their privacy page.


Great. I will get cracking on this.

Does the landlord permission letter, lease copy and rebuttal go direct to their head office? Or back to the address on the LBC?
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ostell
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 15:33
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Just copy the relevant portions of the lease but with the front as well to show that it applies to the property and send it to VCS and suggest that they withdraw now as they have no case, before incurring additional expense.

You are only responding to a LBC at the moment. If, and when, needed your evidence doesn't go with your defence, it will be supplied later, with your witness statement. When the claim form arrives you just have to mention it in your defence.
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bearclaw
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 17:02
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IT hasnt been said but one point of this letter is to show the court you are being "reasonable" that is you are showing them why they have no right to claim, why it's your land etc... You cannot entrap them or hold back relevant info.

IF they then press ahead with the claim it stands you it better stead when it comes to damages and makes you look more reasonable in the judges eye - you;ve tried to stop them wasting the courts time with this but they pressed on anyway....
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Tom Cahill
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 17:19
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Thanks Bearclaw.

Can someone please check the following SAR to see if it is appropriate:

"Dear Sir or Madam

Subject access request ( Data Protection Act 2018 / General Data Protection Regulations (GDPR) )

I am writing to request that you please supply the data about me that I am entitled to under data protection law relating to myself.

Specifically, I request that you supply the following:

- all photos taken pertaining to me or any property of which I am a leaseholder.
- a close up of the signs on the day in question.
- evidence that Vehicle Control Services LTD has paid a debt collector if relevant.
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier.
- all data held, all evidence they will VCS LTD will rely on in any future hearing and a full copy of the PCN and Notice To Keeper.
- and a list of all PCNs that VCS LTD considers to be outstanding against me.

If you need any more data from me to confirm my identity please let me know as soon as possible. It may be helpful for you to know that data protection law requires you to respond to a request for data within one calendar month. However, I am minded to remind you that as you have recently sent me a Letter Before Claim you already hold required identification and should not require anything more.

If you do not normally deal with these requests, please pass this letter to your Data Protection Officer, or relevant staff member. If you need advice on dealing with this request, the Information Commissioner’s Office can assist you. Its website is ico.org.uk or it can be contacted on 0303 123 1113.

Yours faithfully"
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bearclaw
post Sun, 9 Dec 2018 - 17:43
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Just ask for all data relating to yourself.
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Tom Cahill
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 18:20
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My landlord is refusing to give me written confirmation that I can use the parking space incase it goes to court and she gets into trouble.

There is a letting agent though, could they write three letter for me?
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Redivi
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:45
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A landlord refusing to identify the property leased by the tenant
That's a new one

A court finding that she employed VCS in breach of the Landlords and Tenants Act if she doesn't provide the letter is the trouble she ought to be worried out

I would use the contracts that you already have
Do they mention a parking space at all ?

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Tom Cahill
post Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:58
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No the only contract I have, the tenancy agreement, makes no mention of the space. I do have the copy of the lease for the space though which has the landlords name on anyway.

This post has been edited by Tom Cahill: Wed, 12 Dec 2018 - 19:59
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nosferatu1001
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 08:50
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You havea copy of the lease for the space showing the landlord can park there at least?
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Redivi
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 09:29
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Has your landlord given written confirmation that she's refusing to give you written confirmation in case she gets into trouble ?
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bearclaw
post Thu, 13 Dec 2018 - 09:32
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I suspect your landlord will find it much more inconveninet to give evidence in person as a witness than to provide a letter!
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