NIP Received For Speeding 35mph in a 30mph Zone - Thames Valley Police Options

[John121]

Hi Guys,

I received a NIP from Thames valley police.

Recorded speeding 35 mph, in a 30 mph zone.

I was new to the area and roads were new to me, also with it being dark I didnt even realise there was a camera there.

Its the first time iv'e ever received a NIP,

Date of offence is: 15/10/2021
Date of NIP is: 25/10/2021
Date NIP received in Post is: 26/10/2021

Anything i can say in order to try and get around this one as I was only 5 mph over the limit and I believe 1 mph over the speeding threshold?

Please see NIP below:










Thanks

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[The Rookie]

People usually just complete the NIP wizard as asked to in the ‘read this first before posting’ sticky…..

35 in a 30 is the lowest speed at which enforcement starts, you’ll be offered an awareness course (as you say this is your first NIP) to dispose of the allegation. Circa £90 and half a day of your time.

New to the area and not knowing there is a camera there is of course totally irrelevant, you're expected to know how to work out what the limit is and obey it. As you weren’t doing circa 40 it’s likley you did know it was a 30 limit perhaps and were just a bit casual in your driving.

NOTHING you can say will make them drop it, otherwise you’d be asking for the enforcement threshold to be moved to 36, then those caught at 36 would say the same thing, rinse and repeat. That isn’t going to happen obviously.

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 27 Oct 2021 - 09:59

[John121]

Sure. Appreciate your help.
Can I provide my details online or would I have to fill in the form and send off.

[TMC Towcester]

Sure. Appreciate your help.
Can I provide my details online or would I have to fill in the form and send off.

Signature required so snail mail. DO GET proof of posting from your local PO though (and keep it!!). Don't waste money on any other than 1st class post though.

[John121]

Amazing thanks for your help

[John121]

Hey guys,
Just received a response from Thames Valley Police and have been offered to do the educational course which is online.
Does anyone know if there is a test that you have to do in the course to pass it? Or is it just a course you have to attend (online) and listen to?

Also there have sent a list of different course providers (based around the country). I can choose any course provider as course will be done online so no need to travel, however anyone know which provider does the course the cheapest or is it all the same price?

The list of course providers includes:
Drive Tech,
TTC,
Cheshire,
Hartlepool Borough Council,
Dyfed-Powys,
Essex Highways,
Driver Education Gloucestershire,
Hampshire Police,
Hertfordshire County Council,
Safer Roads Humber,
Kent County Council,
Lancashire,
Leicester County Council,
Lincolnshire County Council,
Mersyside,
Norfolk County Council,
Staffordshire County Council,
Suffolk County Council,
West Sussex County Council,
Warwickshire CC

[TMC Towcester]

No test, justa basic modicum of attention needed!

Prices vary by a few quid only (max £10 when I last looked). Not a fan of the course (a minority view) but tryandfind one presented by ex-coppers (vs ADIs).

[The Slithy Tove]

Not a fan of the course (a minority view) but tryandfind one presented by ex-coppers (vs ADIs).

You may not be a fan, but a course is more likely than a fine to change the kind of atttitude that suggests don't speed only when there's a camera rather than all the time:

also with it being dark I didnt even realise there was a camera there.

P.S. I'm not trying to be judgmental, as that's not allowed.

This post has been edited by The Slithy Tove: Sat, 20 Nov 2021 - 09:38

[John121]

Amazing. That's very helpful.

Regards

[notmeatloaf]

You may not be a fan, but a course is more likely than a fine to change the kind of atttitude that suggests don't speed only when there's a camera rather than all the time:

Except for the fact that reoffending rates between SAC attendees vs FPN recipients are almost identical.

Essentially a SAC is just a financial choice - (cost of SAC + hourly value of one's time) vs (£100 + insurance premium rise). There is no evidence you will be more compliant with the laws afterwards, or else insurace companies would offer a discount for taking them.

I suspect for most waged people with a clean licence a FPN will be the cheaper option, unless you place value on having a clean licence OR the chance a future offence might be above SAC thresholds.

[The Slithy Tove]

Essentially a SAC is just a financial choice - (cost of SAC + hourly value of one's time) vs (£100 + insurance premium rise). There is no evidence you will be more compliant with the laws afterwards, or else insurace companies would offer a discount for taking them.

Maybe they do in a kind-of reverse way. Points will lead to higher premiums if you start racking them up, while a SAC will have no effect.

[The Rookie]

There is no evidence you will be more compliant with the laws afterwards, or else insurace companies would offer a discount for taking them.

Maybe you just revert to the same level of compliance as all those who've never been caught rather than being perceived as an increased risk? Your logic here is rather flakey.

[notmeatloaf]

Maybe you just revert to the same level of compliance as all those who've never been caught rather than being perceived as an increased risk? Your logic here is rather flakey.

The only study using DVLA data was scatty, not least because of the near impossibility of having a comparable group taking a SAC and taking a FPN. They tentatively suggested a 9% reduction in reoffending, although it's clear from the study that figure was deduced by throwing dice.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...-evaluation.pdf

Either way, for a £100m+ a year industry, there is pretty much no objective evidence that they work better than FPNs, despite FPNs generating a lot more revenue for the exchequer then courses.

[The Rookie]

because of the near impossibility of having a comparable group taking a SAC and taking a FPN.

Compare English to Scottish cases?

As the SAC is the lesser punishment than the FPN why should it be expected to have a greater impact exactly? Logically a,lesser impact is perfectly acceptable.

If it genuinely did have a greater impact then SAC should be offered to a higher speed perhaps?

This post has been edited by The Rookie: Wed, 24 Nov 2021 - 06:57

[baroudeur]

Maybe you just revert to the same level of compliance as all those who've never been caught rather than being perceived as an increased risk? Your logic here is rather flakey.

The only study using DVLA data was scatty, not least because of the near impossibility of having a comparable group taking a SAC and taking a FPN. They tentatively suggested a 9% reduction in reoffending, although it's clear from the study that figure was deduced by throwing dice.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/go...-evaluation.pdf

Either way, for a £100m+ a year industry, there is pretty much no objective evidence that they work better than FPNs, despite FPNs generating a lot more revenue for the exchequer then courses.

Do the courses produce any income for the Exchequer? The fee is split with most to the course operator and a small amount (reputed to be £25) to the police for handling the paperwork involved.

[The Rookie]

The only benefit to the exchequer is not having to fund that part of the camera team operation funded by the SAC, assuming they would and that the teams wouldn’t have to be cut back (meaning their jobs rely on the SAC and thus fall into a perilous grey zone to say the least of effectively the police personally profiting for offering a means for a defendant to pay their way out of an allegation).

[cp8759]

The only benefit to the exchequer is not having to fund that part of the camera team operation funded by the SAC, assuming they would and that the teams wouldn’t have to be cut back (meaning their jobs rely on the SAC and thus fall into a perilous grey zone to say the least of effectively the police personally profiting for offering a means for a defendant to pay their way out of an allegation).

Well you also have the tax on the SAC provider's profits, VAT on their charges, and PAYE tax of their staff.

[The Rookie]

You do, but as most people spend all they earn that £80-100 would have almost certainly been spent elsewhere with a near identical amount going to the exchequer. (Yes I'd already thought of that and decided it wasn't a benefit).

[NewJudge]

And if it was spent on booze or fags there would be additional income for the Exchequer in the form of excise duty.

[The Rookie]

Or if it was spent on fuel to go somewhere for the day on that money.